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Started By
Message
Omnipotence and free will cannot exist together.
Posted on 11/22/18 at 10:55 am
Posted on 11/22/18 at 10:55 am
28
Posted on 11/22/18 at 10:56 am to GeauxTigerNation
Nothing else better to do on thanksgiving?
Posted on 11/22/18 at 10:56 am to JiminyCricket
Not until the family piles in at 2 
Posted on 11/22/18 at 10:56 am to GeauxTigerNation
OMG my faith is shattered
Posted on 11/22/18 at 10:56 am to GeauxTigerNation
I read it as impotence
Posted on 11/22/18 at 10:57 am to GeauxTigerNation
You can at least argue your point...lazy arse
Posted on 11/22/18 at 10:58 am to GeauxTigerNation
The Bible never mentions us having absolute free will.
Posted on 11/22/18 at 10:58 am to TOSOV
Alright .
If I know everything you are going to do for the rest of your days, then that means there is a set path.
That is not free will. It's the illusion of free will.
If I know everything you are going to do for the rest of your days, then that means there is a set path.
That is not free will. It's the illusion of free will.
Posted on 11/22/18 at 11:00 am to bamafan1001
If we don't have absolute free will, then is God just a giant prick?
He knew Eve would take the fruit and set them up to fail if he truly knows all. Right?
He knew Eve would take the fruit and set them up to fail if he truly knows all. Right?
Posted on 11/22/18 at 11:00 am to GeauxTigerNation
I don't intend to make an argument for the existence of God or free will, but I don't think your argument sufficiently disproves either.
Your statement 2 violates the premise of 1. If a being is truly omnipotent, then it would not be constrained by any causes. Your model assumes that the omnipotent and omniscient being is moving through time with us, and is subject to time the same way we are. If there is an omnipotent being, then it can't be constrained by time or space the way we are. It therefore follows that perceived future events are within the power to change of an omnipotent being. You can't say that events "MUST" anything.
I can conceive of a state where a being percieves the future as branches of possibilities and allows the being to freely move forward and backward, changing conditions and outcomes. This would be compatible with the Many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics, and doesn't require absolute omniscience or omnipotence ... it only requires that the being be not subject to our restrictions of space and time.
Your statement 2 violates the premise of 1. If a being is truly omnipotent, then it would not be constrained by any causes. Your model assumes that the omnipotent and omniscient being is moving through time with us, and is subject to time the same way we are. If there is an omnipotent being, then it can't be constrained by time or space the way we are. It therefore follows that perceived future events are within the power to change of an omnipotent being. You can't say that events "MUST" anything.
I can conceive of a state where a being percieves the future as branches of possibilities and allows the being to freely move forward and backward, changing conditions and outcomes. This would be compatible with the Many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics, and doesn't require absolute omniscience or omnipotence ... it only requires that the being be not subject to our restrictions of space and time.
Posted on 11/22/18 at 11:02 am to genuineLSUtiger
The god as described by many types of Christianity knows exactly what will happen and nothing is beyond his reach of understanding.
It is impossible to conclude that we are free to do what we want. And if we don't have free will, then he sets certain people up to fail.
It is impossible to conclude that we are free to do what we want. And if we don't have free will, then he sets certain people up to fail.
Posted on 11/22/18 at 11:02 am to GeauxTigerNation
If one's will is already bent in a particular direction then it cannot be free.
Next question.
Next question.
Posted on 11/22/18 at 11:03 am to wfallstiger
Or, it is free because we are not creations of a more powerful entity. 
Posted on 11/22/18 at 11:04 am to GeauxTigerNation
If you love someone - let them go. If they come back, they love you too.
Posted on 11/22/18 at 11:04 am to GeauxTigerNation
You’re a real Stephen Hawking
Posted on 11/22/18 at 11:05 am to RonLaFlamme
Bottom line is this.
If we have free will, God is not omnipotent.
If we don't have free will, then everyone who has ever died and gone to hell has done so without a will of his own.
So which is it.
If we have free will, God is not omnipotent.
If we don't have free will, then everyone who has ever died and gone to hell has done so without a will of his own.
So which is it.
Posted on 11/22/18 at 11:05 am to GeauxTigerNation
Who says they know everything they are going to do for the rest of their life? And how is that "Omnipotence"? Thought that just meant all mighty/powerful, not so much "all knowing into the future" kind of thing.
Posted on 11/22/18 at 11:07 am to TOSOV
Omnipotent by definition is the ability to do everything. Even know what will happen.
Posted on 11/22/18 at 11:09 am to GeauxTigerNation
I don’t think that’s the bottom line but it is definitely an idea you are struggling with. Are you a parent?
Posted on 11/22/18 at 11:10 am to RonLaFlamme
I wouldn't say struggling.
It's like the idea of somehow being happy in Heaven if a loved one was burning in hell.
It's like the idea of somehow being happy in Heaven if a loved one was burning in hell.
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