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Started By
Message
NYTimes with a great op-ed on the First Amendment
Posted on 12/4/17 at 2:55 pm
Posted on 12/4/17 at 2:55 pm
LINK
quote:
You need the First Amendment precisely when your ideas offend others or flout the majority’s orthodoxies. And then it protects more than your freedom to speak your mind; it guards your freedom not to speak the mind of another.
quote:
At some level, Colorado itself gets it. Three times the state has declined to force pro-gay bakers to provide a Christian patron with a cake they could not in conscience create given their own convictions on sexuality and marriage. Colorado was right to recognize their First Amendment right against compelled speech. It’s wrong to deny Jack Phillips that same right.
8
Posted on 12/4/17 at 3:00 pm to RedRifle
He looks gay.
Posted on 12/4/17 at 3:03 pm to OysterPoBoy
quote:
He looks gay.
Read the article, he isn't gay. He's a baker who refuses to make cakes for same sex weddings, divorce parties, etc because they are against his moral convictions
quote:
On Tuesday, the court will consider whether Colorado may deny Jack Phillips, the owner of Masterpiece Cakeshop, the right to sell custom wedding cakes because he cannot in conscience create them for same-sex weddings. Mr. Phillips, who has run his bakery since 1993, sells off-the-shelf items to anyone, no questions asked. But he cannot deploy his artistic skills to create cakes celebrating themes that violate his religious and moral convictions. Thus he does not design cakes for divorce parties, lewd bachelor parties, Halloween parties or same-sex weddings.
This post was edited on 12/4/17 at 3:04 pm
Posted on 12/4/17 at 3:05 pm to OysterPoBoy
quote:Quit looking in the mirror.
He looks gay.
Posted on 12/4/17 at 3:07 pm to Packer
As a private business owner he should be able to do business with whomever he deems fit.
And any gay person has the right NOT to do business with him.
I’m sure there are gay bakers that will bake for straight couples and straight bakers that will bake for gay people.
YellowPages-let your fingers do the walking. Not everything deserves to be a viral issue.
And any gay person has the right NOT to do business with him.
I’m sure there are gay bakers that will bake for straight couples and straight bakers that will bake for gay people.
YellowPages-let your fingers do the walking. Not everything deserves to be a viral issue.
Posted on 12/4/17 at 3:08 pm to RedRifle
Good read. Thanks for posting.
Posted on 12/4/17 at 3:11 pm to Martini
quote:
As a private business owner he should be able to do business with whomever he deems fit.
While I completely agree personally, that's not quite what they're saying here.
Posted on 12/4/17 at 3:13 pm to Packer
quote:
Read the article, he isn't gay
quote:
He's a baker
Tomato, tomato.
Posted on 12/4/17 at 3:14 pm to RedRifle
It's a business. He should sell to two sheep if they have the money to buy something.. The same sex marriage people are going to go buy a cake whether he sells it to them or not, he is only hurting himself by not being the one to sell to them... Idiot.
Posted on 12/4/17 at 3:16 pm to RedRifle
quote:
Posted on 12/4/17 at 3:17 pm to LSUBoo
It’s the root of the arguement. The use of a cake as “artistic speech” is really trying to define or redirect the argument .
In essence he doesn’t want to make something “custom” for a gay couple. And he shouldn’t have to.
In essence he doesn’t want to make something “custom” for a gay couple. And he shouldn’t have to.
Posted on 12/4/17 at 3:17 pm to OweO
quote:
It's a business. He should sell to two sheep if they have the money to buy something.. The same sex marriage people are going to go buy a cake whether he sells it to them or not, he is only hurting himself by not being the one to sell to them... Idiot.
And he'd probably be up-in-arms if, say apple, refused to sell him an iPhone because he discriminates against gay marriage.
Posted on 12/4/17 at 3:18 pm to soccerfüt
Posted on 12/4/17 at 3:19 pm to MLCLyons
Doesn’t matter if he’s an idiot or not. It’s his business his terms. Money isn’t everything.
Posted on 12/4/17 at 3:19 pm to OweO
quote:
he is only hurting himself by not being the one to sell to them... Idiot.
Dumb.
He's been in business since the 70's. It's well established with existing clientele. Somehow I don't think the lack of gay customers is going to crush his margin.
Successful businesses exclude potential clients all the time. In his mind, he would hurt himself far more by agreeing to the cake than any tiny loss of revenue might hurt him.
This post was edited on 12/4/17 at 3:38 pm
Posted on 12/4/17 at 3:20 pm to OweO
I don’t think he has a problem necessarily selling to gays.
He just doesn’t want to make cakes that promote the homo lifestyle.
He just doesn’t want to make cakes that promote the homo lifestyle.
Posted on 12/4/17 at 3:24 pm to MLCLyons
quote:
And he'd probably be up-in-arms if, say apple, refused to sell him an iPhone because he discriminates against gay marriage.
He would buy it directly off the shelf, just as he has agreed to let homosexual couples do from his shop.
quote:
Mr. Phillips, who has run his bakery since 1993, sells off-the-shelf items to anyone, no questions asked. But he cannot deploy his artistic skills to create cakes celebrating themes that violate his religious and moral convictions. Thus he does not design cakes for divorce parties, lewd bachelor parties, Halloween parties or same-sex weddings.
Is Apple customizing him a phone, for a specific event, with requested modifications and a pre-determined delivery date?
At that point your analogy might make sense.
This post was edited on 12/4/17 at 3:26 pm
Posted on 12/4/17 at 3:25 pm to Martini
quote:
In essence he doesn’t want to make something “custom” for a gay couple. And he shouldn’t have to.
Right, but in Colorado if it wasn't "custom" and considered artistic expression, he would have to. He couldn't refuse to sell an off the shelf to a gay couple, he just can refuse to create a custom cake.
Personally, I think a private business owner should be able to refuse service to or business with anyone if they choose, regardless of artistic expression.
I think it would be a poor business decision, but it's not mine to make.
Posted on 12/4/17 at 3:36 pm to OweO
quote:
It's a business. He should sell to two sheep if they have the money to buy something.. The same sex marriage people are going to go buy a cake whether he sells it to them or not, he is only hurting himself by not being the one to sell to them... Idiot.
What an incredibly stupid view.
Posted on 12/4/17 at 3:49 pm to RedRifle
This is stupid.
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