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re: No matter what direction we point a telescope, we always look toward the Big Bang - why?
Posted on 7/28/22 at 10:25 am to DarthRebel
Posted on 7/28/22 at 10:25 am to DarthRebel
quote:
I am not sure this argument is complete. Are you wanting to add an undetermined amount of time to the 13.8 billion?
The point is we can't see all the way back to 13.8 billion years. We can see back to certain time and then the time before that is obscured. How long that time is has been calculated by the factors I listed.
0
Posted on 7/28/22 at 10:25 am to Zephyrius
quote:
What if its true that the early Church Fathers were correct that the earth is the center of the universe.
we already know that's not true, as we aren't even the center of our own galaxy
Posted on 7/28/22 at 10:26 am to StringedInstruments
quote:
But if the universe is expanding and we’re moving “forward,” shouldn’t there be a direction where we’d say, “that’s the direction we’re moving”?
Not the easiest question to answer in a post, but I'll try with my limited understanding.
So as far as we know space cannot exist without matter and vice-versa. The expansion of space in the inflationary period was due to matter being shot out faster than the speed of light, which warped space and it has been warping ever since. Space is thought to be paper thin without matter, add in matter and space expands to fit it all. Even the "empty space" around us isn't empty. Electrons will pop in and out of existence in the vacuum; we've proven it in experiments.
So take that and think of the expansion of space like your filling a balloon full of water. No matter where you look, the furthest you could ever see would be the boundary of the balloon, or boundary of space; which is still affected by the energy from the early universe.
Posted on 7/28/22 at 10:28 am to DarthRebel
quote:
It is easier and more logical to believe in God, than the Big Bang.
no, it's really not, but if the whole God thing works for you, cool... realistically, both sides (believers vs. non-believers) are both taking their best guesses, and are exactly the same amount of right and wrong about it
Posted on 7/28/22 at 10:32 am to StringedInstruments
Because Einstein's theories require an expanding universe to work, so rather than say he's wrong (as he has been proven to be more than once in recent years), the big bang theory was born.
Posted on 7/28/22 at 10:44 am to Wiener
quote:
Not sure why there's such animosity toward that process nowadays.
It's even worse than that. First, we've convinced ourselves that only science has value, anyone pursuing the arts is wasting their time. THEN we discount all of the fruits of science we don't like by saying, "It's just a theory".
hypothesis
experimental design
empirical observation
analysis
conclusion
theory
Theories are at the end of the scientific method, not the beginning. People give them short shrift.
Posted on 7/28/22 at 10:48 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
There is no "edge" of the universe in the simplistic way you are thinking.
How do you know? There is a "past the universe where nothing exists" or "past the universe where something else exists." The universe is estimated at 13.77 billion years. That means that stuff nearly at the edge would be visible to us. If we are off center, we are much nearer than 13.77 billion light years to the edge. So if we can see 13 billion light years, it is reasonable to assume that we can see to the nothing in some direction, likely a whole lot of directions. Or:
1. The universe is not 13.77 billion years old.
2. We are near the center of the universe.
3. We can't actually see that far.
4. We are wrong about the makeup of the universe.
Posted on 7/28/22 at 10:50 am to Korkstand
quote:
what's past the distance that light could have traveled in that time is unknowable.
Dormamu!
Posted on 7/28/22 at 10:57 am to squid_hunt
quote:
Or:
1. The universe is not 13.77 billion years old.
2. We are near the center of the universe.
3. We can't actually see that far.
4. We are wrong about the makeup of the universe.
5. The universe is expanding at different rates. That is, the edges of the universe are expanding faster than points closer to the center. So long as they aren't expanding faster than the speed of light we could still "see" them, albeit at different wavelengths than what they originally emanated.
Posted on 7/28/22 at 11:00 am to squid_hunt
quote:
1. The universe is not 13.77 billion years old.
It likely isn't. That is how old the OBSERVABLE universe is.
quote:
2. We are near the center of the universe.
There's no such thing as the center of the universe
Posted on 7/28/22 at 11:05 am to Lonnie Utah
quote:
The universe is expanding at different rates. That is, the edges of the universe are expanding faster than points closer to the center.
You understand this is the least probable answer, right? It's just convenient to keep the assumptions alive.
Posted on 7/28/22 at 11:08 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
It likely isn't. That is how old the OBSERVABLE universe is.
That is how old the universe is calculated to be since the big bang. It is literally not observable since our best telescope can only see 13 billion light years away.
quote:
There's no such thing as the center of the universe
If the universe is expanding outward in all directions, as has been hypothosized, then there is a discreet center of the universe, although it is likely to be off kilter at this point.
This post was edited on 7/28/22 at 11:10 am
Posted on 7/28/22 at 11:12 am to squid_hunt
quote:
You understand this is the least probable answer, right?
No, it's THE most probable answer since it's observable and repeatable.
LINK
Posted on 7/28/22 at 11:14 am to StringedInstruments
You aren’t seeing past the firmament
Posted on 7/28/22 at 11:15 am to Lonnie Utah
quote:
since it's observable and repeatable.
It's neither of those things. Occam's razor says you're wrong.
Posted on 7/28/22 at 11:17 am to squid_hunt
quote:
It's neither of those things. Occam's razor says you're wrong.
Do you even red shift bro?
Posted on 7/28/22 at 11:19 am to squid_hunt
quote:That's not what that means.
The universe is estimated at 13.77 billion years. That means that stuff nearly at the edge would be visible to us.
quote:Nope.
If we are off center, we are much nearer than 13.77 billion light years to the edge. So if we can see 13 billion light years, it is reasonable to assume that we can see to the nothing in some direction, likely a whole lot of directions.
Think about it like this... we can see a galaxy that's about 13.8 billion light years away. Now put yourself on a planet in that galaxy. If you look in the direction of the milky way, you would be able to see it but not much past it, even though from our pov there is surely much more in that direction. Likewise, from that faraway galaxy they can see another 13.8 billion light years in that direction, past where we can see from the milky way, and they are very likely to not see the "edge" either.
And neither of us could know who is nearer the "center" of the universe, if such a place existed. It's the speed of light that is the limiting factor here, and if the universe were older then we could see "further".
Posted on 7/28/22 at 11:19 am to Korkstand
quote:
That's why we keep doing science.
That is why people should quit with the Big Bang "Theory" is what happened.
Big Bang is a placeholder and thus my comment God would be a better placeholder and easier to grasp.
Big Bang is the ultimate "magic" and people eat that crap up as settled truth
This post was edited on 7/28/22 at 11:24 am
Posted on 7/28/22 at 11:22 am to Lonnie Utah
quote:
Do you even red shift bro?
You understand red shift broke their models, right? Because it's speeding up? They still can't account for it, which is where dark matter comes in. It's also of note that we've only been observing red shift for 100 years. We only know what we can see.
Posted on 7/28/22 at 11:23 am to StringedInstruments
quote:
No matter what direction we point a telescope, we always look toward the Big Bang - why?
earth is flat, duh.
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