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Myocarditis and mRNA Vaccine (Possible Link)?
Posted on 4/28/21 at 2:28 am
Posted on 4/28/21 at 2:28 am
There are rumblings that myocarditis might be connected to the Pfizer (and Moderna) vaccines. (Myocarditis is the inflammation of the heart muscle). It is still preliminary but Israel is reporting a spike in cases, mostly among men under 30. And almost all of the cases occurred shortly after the 2nd shot (not first).
Israel says it has identified 62 cases (out of 5 million people receiving 2nd dose). Two people died - one 22 year old woman and a 35 year old man. The rest are already out of the hospital and in good condition. The Israeli health minister says they are currently investigating and have not determined whether this is above background levels or if it has anything to do with the vaccine. But it is enough for them to be suspicious.
The U.S. military has also reported 14 cases among young GI's. Most of them had the Moderna vaccine. And, just like in Israel, it almost always happened after the 2nd shot.
If you run the Israeli numbers, then 1 out of 100,000 people have gotten myocarditis after the 2nd shot.
Israel and the U.S. military have shared everything with the CDC and the CDC has said they are aware and looking into it. CDC director said they have yet to find a "signal" of myocarditis in the American population in general, despite close monitoring for a while for this specific condition. Pfizer was contacted and is aware, but claim it is too early to draw conclusions.
Health.com
Also, there's this one anecdote. Dude on Twitter (who is a journalist) said he got it after his 2nd shot:
He went on to say he is out of hospital and doing OK. Docs don't want him doing any cardio exercises or drinking caffeine for the next three months.
I am pro-vaccine and will get my 2nd shot soon. But I still think there could be something to this. It's highly strange almost all cases came after the 2nd dose (not first) which leads me to believe it is not some random correlation. However, the question is how common is it? Going by Israeli data, it is very uncommon.
Israel says it has identified 62 cases (out of 5 million people receiving 2nd dose). Two people died - one 22 year old woman and a 35 year old man. The rest are already out of the hospital and in good condition. The Israeli health minister says they are currently investigating and have not determined whether this is above background levels or if it has anything to do with the vaccine. But it is enough for them to be suspicious.
The U.S. military has also reported 14 cases among young GI's. Most of them had the Moderna vaccine. And, just like in Israel, it almost always happened after the 2nd shot.
If you run the Israeli numbers, then 1 out of 100,000 people have gotten myocarditis after the 2nd shot.
Israel and the U.S. military have shared everything with the CDC and the CDC has said they are aware and looking into it. CDC director said they have yet to find a "signal" of myocarditis in the American population in general, despite close monitoring for a while for this specific condition. Pfizer was contacted and is aware, but claim it is too early to draw conclusions.
Health.com
Also, there's this one anecdote. Dude on Twitter (who is a journalist) said he got it after his 2nd shot:
He went on to say he is out of hospital and doing OK. Docs don't want him doing any cardio exercises or drinking caffeine for the next three months.
I am pro-vaccine and will get my 2nd shot soon. But I still think there could be something to this. It's highly strange almost all cases came after the 2nd dose (not first) which leads me to believe it is not some random correlation. However, the question is how common is it? Going by Israeli data, it is very uncommon.
15
Posted on 4/28/21 at 3:25 am to AUstar
quote:
But I still think there could be something to this.
I just think the numbers don’t back that up.
You’ll never in your life find something where you’re batting 1.000. Never. Nothing is infallible or perfect. 62 people out of 5 million. (0.00000124%). Even vaccinations we all get when we’re infants, there’s a chance of side effects.
458 people per year die per year from Acetaminophen. Basic otc meds.
This post was edited on 4/28/21 at 6:36 am
Posted on 4/28/21 at 3:38 am to Prominentwon
quote:
0.00000124%
So, same as death rate for people under 40 without extreme obesity from covid.
Posted on 4/28/21 at 4:37 am to AUstar
quote:
However, the question is how common is it?
My question is always going to be is it above the statistical norm for a population.
It’s like when people freaked out about possible Bells Palsy with the vaccine in trials. It was lower than the statistical norm.
Also, FWIW, I had the Moderna shots. A few weeks after the shot I had some dizziness and chest pain. I got checked out. Had an EKG (normal), blood work (trop in was normal) etc. Found out I’m iron anemic.
This post was edited on 4/28/21 at 4:54 am
Posted on 4/28/21 at 5:31 am to AUstar
What are the chances all of those men had all of those problems even without the vaccine?
Posted on 4/28/21 at 5:47 am to WicKed WayZ
A good friend of mine’s daughter is currently going through Covid induced myocarditis.
Posted on 4/28/21 at 5:48 am to WicKed WayZ
quote:
What are the chances all of those men had all of those problems even without the vaccine?
I wondered the same. Google says incidence is estimated at 10-20 per 100,000 people per year. It seems the rate is lower in vaccinated people than the general population.
Posted on 4/28/21 at 6:02 am to AUstar
These numbers are so small it is impossible to draw a link yet. Why not assume that those individuals would have had a similar or even worse reaction after any other challenge to the immune system?
That seems like less of a leap than assigning causality for something that occurs this infrequently in a population.
If the vaccine is effective, it wouldn’t matter if there was a link because benefits still outweigh risks.
That seems like less of a leap than assigning causality for something that occurs this infrequently in a population.
If the vaccine is effective, it wouldn’t matter if there was a link because benefits still outweigh risks.
This post was edited on 4/28/21 at 6:03 am
Posted on 4/28/21 at 6:14 am to Misnomer
quote:
the vaccine is effective, it wouldn’t matter if there was a link because benefits still outweigh risks
Benefits? Protection against a virus most don’t even realize they have unless they get tested, and nearly everyone recover fine from?
To me, even minor risks outweigh those minor benefits.
I see both sides of this argument, but vaccine fanboys are quick to dismiss statistically insignificant warning signs that are almost always underreported.
Posted on 4/28/21 at 6:17 am to AUstar
quote:
Israel and the U.S. military have shared everything with the CDC and the CDC has said they are aware and looking into it.
This post was edited on 4/28/21 at 6:18 am
Posted on 4/28/21 at 6:19 am to LSUfan20005
quote:
To me, even minor risks outweigh those minor benefits.
Viral infections (like coronaviruses) are the most common cause of myocarditis. Your chances of getting myocarditis from COVID (or from being in the general population, apparently) are higher than getting it from the vaccine.
I legit had no opinion either way about this vaccine until I started seeing risk arguments that didn’t make sense.
This post was edited on 4/28/21 at 6:20 am
Posted on 4/28/21 at 6:21 am to Misnomer
quote:
If the vaccine is effective, it wouldn’t matter if there was a link because benefits still outweigh risks.
For the elderly or those with compromised immune systems...I agree.
Everyone else...
Posted on 4/28/21 at 6:25 am to LSUfan20005
quote:
Benefits? Protection against a virus most don’t even realize they have unless they get tested, and nearly everyone recover fine from?
Speak for yourself. I’m 40 with no health problems and BMI of 23. When I had COVID I high fever for 8 days, plus all the other uncomfortable symptom, and pneumonia. I have never had pneumonia in my life.
There is more morbidity associated with covid than the outcome of dying in ICU.
We missed three weeks of work and school. I would have preferred preventing all the above. Some people are too important and busy to come down with COVID.
Posted on 4/28/21 at 6:28 am to Prominentwon
quote:
62 people out of 5 million.
That we know of. How many people are dying that we just assume was a heart attack and no autopsy was performed? A co-worker's brother dies three weeks ago. 49 and in great shape. Took on of the vaccines and two weeks later started complaining about his chest burning. Thought it was heart burn. Wife found him dead sitting on the toilet. Probable heart attack but no autopsy done.
Was he #63?
Posted on 4/28/21 at 6:34 am to AUstar
The fear mongering with the vaccines is worse than the fear mongering with the virus.
Posted on 4/28/21 at 6:36 am to Misnomer
quote:
I’m 40 with no health problems and BMI of 23. When I had COVID I high fever for 8 days, plus all the other uncomfortable symptom, and pneumonia. I have never had pneumonia in my life.
I’m 37, overweight, and caught Covid. Nothing happened to me, my wife, or my toddler. Fever one day.
quote:
Some people are too important and busy to be locked down from COVID.
FIFY
This whole thing is such bullshite.
Posted on 4/28/21 at 6:38 am to BamaCoaster
quote:
So, same as death rate for people under 40 without extreme obesity from covid
Wrong again! Guys like you should be assigned to sponsors who know how to read and reason. The 0.00000124% number was the number of people who got myocarditis. I think only two or three actually died. But your reasoning is typical of the anti-vaccine idiots. You are all Covid-19 heroes, but vaccine pussies.
BTW, I didn’t check his number.
This post was edited on 4/28/21 at 6:39 am
Posted on 4/28/21 at 6:39 am to BHM
Why was no autopsy done on a 49 year old in great shape?!
Posted on 4/28/21 at 6:40 am to goofball
quote:
The fear mongering with the vaccines is worse than the fear mongering with the virus.
One begets the other.
The fear mongering over the virus has led us to our first ever intense discussion about the potential of widespread adult vaccine mandates. Without the fear of a mandate, I think there’d be ambivalence amongst the worried instead of paranoia
Posted on 4/28/21 at 6:46 am to Prominentwon
quote:
458 people per year die per year from Acetaminophen. Basic otc meds.
Yes and acetaminophen is also the number one cause of acute liver failure in our part of the world.
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