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re: Mass shooting on Vegas Strip discussion

Posted on 10/15/17 at 9:47 pm to
Posted by VaBamaMan
North AL
Member since Apr 2013
8301 posts
Posted on 10/15/17 at 9:47 pm to
quote:

If they fired 200 bullets at the security guard, then why did it take the police so long to locate the shooters room? The security guard got shot like 6 mins or so before the people in the crowd got unloaded on.

Surely if someone fires off 200 rounds at you, you know where it came from if it were inside the hotel hallway.


He didn't fire 200 rounds at the security guard, Jesus Campos.

They said that at last Thursday morning's presser. At Thursday night's presser, they amended it to say that the 200 rounds were fired at the first group officers, who were NOT the SWAT team, that arrived on the floor around 12 minutes after the shooting started.

According to Sheriff Lombardo:

Jesus Campos met the regular patrol officers who had formed a unit to take down Paddock, as they came up the stairs, and directed them to the room he was shot from. They went down the hall to approach Paddock's room, but Paddock saw them coming and fired 200 rounds through the door at them. The hall is pretty long, and they were probably walking slowly, so they were far enough away to retreat safely, which they did immediately. They didn't fire back because they didn't have a clear line of sight since Paddock was shooting through the door. They didn't know if he had hostages or a bomb they might hit. At this point, he stopped firing on the crowd, so they decided to wait on swat and just secure the floor.

Also, we don't see 200 bullet holes, because the top half of the door on the left was blown apart when SWAT breaches the room!



Preface to the next series of events:

What happens next depends on who you heard it from, but I'm going with the version that makes the most sense to me based on the timeline, and the leaked crime scene photos. As well as the fact Sheriff Lombardo and other LEs have all insisted Paddock was trying to escape. Additionally, a local Vegas reporter stated that she was told Paddock accidentaly shot himself in the lower abdomen while gathering guns, and then committed suicide.

Event story continued(partial speculation):

After firing at the officers, Paddock started trying to gather some of his guns together to try and escape. This is backed up by the leaked photos. In the picture with the 2 chairs pushed together to make a makeshift table, you see a stack of guns, and in the floor behind the chairs, an open suitcase surrounded by more guns, magazines, and other accessories.

During his scramble to escape, he probably picked up one of the guns that had been jammed in the shooting and it went off, hitting him in the lower abdomen. He fell against the table with the note for support, and then fell into a sitting or laying position. But probably laying because of the blood flow from his suicide.

This is backed up by the blood on his shirt, and the blood on the side of the table where the note was. All of the blood from his suicide went up his face, despite shooting himself in the mouth, he didn't even have blood on his chin. This means the blood on his shirt, and the blood on the table, had to come from somewhere else. This scenario also explains why his foot is under the gun at awkward angle, because he was already laying down when he killed himself.

The gun was up above his head because the officers kicked it away just in case he was still alive.

And the reason we don't see a second gunshot wound is because the leaked pictures were not intended to reveal any information we didn't already know. The only "new" information we got from the pictures was the note's existence, which I think was simply a mistake by the leaker. At the time the pictures were released, they still didn't know if he'd been shot by himself, an officer, or someone else. So the photographer was trying to make sure they did not release sensitive material like a second gunshot. Notice that all of the pictures showing Paddock's body purposefully miss a section of his body, the lower right abdomen.

Realizing escape was impossible because of how badly he was hurt, he then committed suicide to avoid facing the police.
This post was edited on 10/15/17 at 10:31 pm
Posted by Pendulum
Member since Jan 2009
8049 posts
Posted on 10/15/17 at 9:59 pm to
I always figured that the two chairs were pushed together pre-shooting, and used as a designated jammed gun tossing point.
This post was edited on 10/15/17 at 10:15 pm
Posted by VaBamaMan
North AL
Member since Apr 2013
8301 posts
Posted on 10/15/17 at 10:05 pm to
quote:

I always figured that the two chairs where pushed together pre-shooting, and used as a designated jammed gun tossing point.


It probably was.

But the way those guns were stacked means they weren't just thrown in, they were set there.

Also, if your trying to set up the guns where you can pick each one up with ease, aka: a staging point, you wouldn't place them on top of each other. Makes it harder to get what you need in a hurry. Accessories could catch each other, could pick up two while reaching for 1...etc.
This post was edited on 10/15/17 at 10:06 pm
Posted by eitek1
Member since Jun 2011
2834 posts
Posted on 10/15/17 at 10:49 pm to

Another good question is, if the door was finally blown 70 plus minutes after initial contact (going off of memory) why was it still an Ad Hoc team that did the assault into the room and not the full swat team. The SWAT team had an hour to get there...
Posted by VaBamaMan
North AL
Member since Apr 2013
8301 posts
Posted on 10/15/17 at 10:56 pm to
quote:

Another good question is, if the door was finally blown 70 plus minutes after initial contact (going off of memory) why was it still an Ad Hoc team that did the assault into the room and not the full swat team. The SWAT team had an hour to get there...


Because it was the SWAT team that breached the room. Sheriff Lombardo confirmed this, and the recordings of the radio calls from the LVMPD that night confirms this as well.

Which is why the Ad Hoc team waited, after Paddock put 200 rounds through the door at them. If he had kept firing on the crowd they would have made a harder push to get to Paddock, but since he had stopped firing they didn't feel it was necessary to take that risk.
Posted by BRgetthenet
Member since Oct 2011
118250 posts
Posted on 10/16/17 at 6:26 am to
quote:

after Paddock put 200 rounds through the door at them. If he had kept firing on the crowd they would have made a harder push to get to Paddock, but since he had stopped firing they didn't feel it was necessary to take that risk.




Posted by shel311
McKinney, Texas
Member since Aug 2004
112848 posts
Posted on 10/16/17 at 9:57 am to
Thanks

So people are using 1 person(who sounds like already had health issues) dying out of 20k+ that were there as evidence of....something?
Posted by eitek1
Member since Jun 2011
2834 posts
Posted on 10/16/17 at 10:00 am to
quote:

Another good question is, if the door was finally blown 70 plus minutes after initial contact (going off of memory) why was it still an Ad Hoc team that did the assault into the room and not the full swat team. The SWAT team had an hour to get there...



quote:

Because it was the SWAT team that breached the room. Sheriff Lombardo confirmed this, and the recordings of the radio calls from the LVMPD that night confirms this as well.

Which is why the Ad Hoc team waited, after Paddock put 200 rounds through the door at them. If he had kept firing on the crowd they would have made a harder push to get to Paddock, but since he had stopped firing they didn't feel it was necessary to take that risk.


CBS and the 4 officers that were interviewed as being the ones that breached the room would disagree with you and Sheriff Lombardo.

LINK
Posted by Chad504boy
4 posts
Member since Feb 2005
178845 posts
Posted on 10/16/17 at 10:01 am to
swat team fired when entered room per the radio
Posted by VaBamaMan
North AL
Member since Apr 2013
8301 posts
Posted on 10/16/17 at 11:16 am to
quote:

CBS and the 4 officers that were interviewed as being the ones that breached the room would disagree with you and Sheriff Lombardo.


I'm pretty sure those guys came in behind the SWAT guys. If you listen to the recordings of the radio calls, you can clearly hear that they waited an hour To give SWAT to show up, and that the SWAT team are the ones that breached the room.

Those officers also said the note contained numbers for the distance of various points, bullet drop for those distances...etc.

But at the next day's presser, when the press asked Lombaddo to comment on the note, he said "I'm not at liberty todiscuss that right now".

So it sounds like they are walking that back.
Posted by kengel2
Team Gun
Member since Mar 2004
33723 posts
Posted on 10/16/17 at 11:38 am to
quote:

Another good question is, if the door was finally blown 70 plus minutes after initial contact (going off of memory) why was it still an Ad Hoc team that did the assault into the room and not the full swat team. The SWAT team had an hour to get there...


Do you know how expensive it is to man a full fledged swat team just to have them sit around 90% of the time?

Most departments have their guys in patrol cars. They could have a shift team made up of patrol guys and then have an actual team made up of guys on different shifts that have the knowledge and background necessary for this.

I think for them to be there under an hour was freaking fantastic.

Add to that an explosive breach into a room with almost no Intel.

I don't see any fault by LVMPD and it seems they did a pretty good job.
Posted by VaBamaMan
North AL
Member since Apr 2013
8301 posts
Posted on 10/16/17 at 11:47 am to
quote:

BRgetthenet


I'm not sure why you're laughing. That is official story. Word for word, that's what happened according to both the sheriff and under-sheriff.

The only thing fishy is, unless I'm mistaken, that the team which shows up around the 12 minute mark never called out over the radio that shots were being fired at them. They are required to make that call over the radio if they are fired upon.

That's one of several discrepancies between the radio recordings and the official narrative.

The cops also state that they never heard any more shots after Paddock fired the 200 rounds. But he clearly had to fire at least 1 to kill himself.

Also, there was someone outside, at the base of the Mandalay Bay, who was recording video of the shooting from their perspective. In the video, there is nothing but silence for a long time, which is then punctuated by what you can clearly hear is 2 distinct, singular shots that are separated by roughly 30 seconds. They were definitely from a different caliber than the. 223 he used for the shooting.

If those shots were that loud at the base of the Mandalay Bay, how is it the cops couldn't hear the shots from the hallway? I know those rooms are designed to keep as much sound muffled as possible, but with a bunch of holes through the door they should have been able to hear those 2 shots.

That recording is another source which suggests that the local reporter was correct when she stated that Paddock accidentally shot himself while trying to gather some of his weapons to attempt an escape, and then committed suicide after realizing he would't be able to.
Posted by VaBamaMan
North AL
Member since Apr 2013
8301 posts
Posted on 10/16/17 at 11:51 am to
quote:

swat team fired when entered room per the radio


Yeah, but only 1 officer fired, and it was only 1 round. At least, according to the radio calls.


Lombardo then later claimed that no officer ever fired a single bullet at Paddock.

Which is weird thing to say, unless he had a second bullet wound we don't know about yet, and they weren't sure where it came from.

Which is another thing that suggests the report, which stated he accidentally shot himself while trying to escape and then committed suicide, was correct.
This post was edited on 10/16/17 at 11:55 am
Posted by Havoc
Member since Nov 2015
39225 posts
Posted on 10/16/17 at 11:52 am to
Must say, that is pretty logical and resolves many questions regarding the end of the timeline. I haven't read through it critically yet but appears solid based on first read.
Posted by BOSCEAUX
Where the Down Boys go.
Member since Mar 2008
52385 posts
Posted on 10/16/17 at 12:10 pm to
Any substantial updates since Thursday. Haven’t been following this thread or the story since then.
Posted by SabiDojo
Open to any suggestions.
Member since Nov 2010
84434 posts
Posted on 10/16/17 at 12:18 pm to
Has anyone posted the YouTube video of the Forensic Scientist who proves there was a second shooter?
Posted by VaBamaMan
North AL
Member since Apr 2013
8301 posts
Posted on 10/16/17 at 12:20 pm to
quote:

Has anyone posted the YouTube video of the Forensic Scientist who proves there was a second shooter?


It's been posted, and debunked, dozens of times.
This post was edited on 10/16/17 at 12:21 pm
Posted by SabiDojo
Open to any suggestions.
Member since Nov 2010
84434 posts
Posted on 10/16/17 at 12:22 pm to
How has it been debunked? Cliffs please.
Posted by VaBamaMan
North AL
Member since Apr 2013
8301 posts
Posted on 10/16/17 at 12:22 pm to
quote:

Any substantial updates since Thursday. Haven’t been following this thread or the story since then.



Not really. They've slowed way down on releasing updates, and they've really tightened the cinch of the leaks as well. No one is saying anything anymore.
Posted by The Mick
Member since Oct 2010
45118 posts
Posted on 10/16/17 at 12:24 pm to
quote:

Any substantial updates since Thursday. Haven’t been following this thread or the story since then.
A pathetic press conference Friday where absolutely nothing about the case was revealed. The sheriff emotionally thanked his responding officers, which they deserve, but it was all fluff and time-kill.
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