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Posted on 4/6/22 at 1:20 pm to TacoNash
quote:
quote: A video posted online on Monday and verified by The Times appears to show Ukrainian soldiers killing captured Russian troops outside a village west of Kyiv on or around March 30, as the Russians were withdrawing. I'll thread some findings here: LInk to the article
We’ll it’s The NY Times, and we all know we can’t trust the MSM, so I guess it didn’t happen.
Posted on 4/6/22 at 1:31 pm to REG861
quote:
Mark Hertling @MarkHertling What's going on now in eastern Ukraine? A new ?? Many reports suggest RU has shifted their next fight to the Donbas. What can we expect to see in the coming days/weeks/months? Here's a thread of my "guesses." 1/17
LINK
An excellent thread from US Gen Mark Hertling on what to expect for the forthcoming Battle of The Donbass.
Tldr it looks like a serious, old fashioned world war 2 style battle coming up.
This post was edited on 4/6/22 at 3:34 pm
Posted on 4/6/22 at 1:31 pm to TacoNash
quote:
A video posted online on Monday and verified by The Times appears to show Ukrainian soldiers killing captured Russian troops outside a village west of Kyiv on or around March 30, as the Russians were withdrawing. I'll thread some findings here:
I honestly do not blame the UKA soldiers for killing Russian prisoners. As far as I am concerned the Russians deserve it given their overall treatment of Ukraine citizens
This post was edited on 4/6/22 at 2:12 pm
Posted on 4/6/22 at 1:56 pm to Tigeralum2008
quote:It's understandable why they'd do it but it's still a war crime and Ukraine should enforce their laws against it
I honestly do not blame the UKA soldiers for killing Russian prisoners. arse far as I am concerned the Russians deserve it given their overall treatment of Ukraine citizens
Posted on 4/6/22 at 1:58 pm to Hog on the Hill
Counter argument
Prisoners are more mouths to feed... People are starving. POWs should be the first to die and deserve a fair and quick death.
Prisoners are more mouths to feed... People are starving. POWs should be the first to die and deserve a fair and quick death.
Posted on 4/6/22 at 1:58 pm to wutangfinancial
quote:Tell it to Putin and his gang.
Believing that crushing Russia's economy from nothing to more nothingness is worth the political risks of those policies is very shortsided
I've got no inside information, but as a more or less rational person, I have to believe the crushing sanctions will be relieved as Putinism is removed from Russia's external policy.
Posted on 4/6/22 at 2:02 pm to Hog on the Hill
Fwiw it appears to be the Georgian Legion (foreign fighters from Georgia) who did the executions LINK
Posted on 4/6/22 at 2:05 pm to tokenBoiler
(no message)
This post was edited on 4/6/22 at 2:06 pm
Posted on 4/6/22 at 2:07 pm to Abstract Queso Dip
quote:
Prisoners are more mouths to feed... People are starving. POWs should be the first to die and deserve a fair and quick death.
And they impede combat operations. Joachim Pieper argued (successfully) this in defense of of the Malmedy massacre.
Posted on 4/6/22 at 2:08 pm to Abstract Queso Dip
quote:
Prisoners are more mouths to feed... People are starving. POWs should be the first to die and deserve a fair and quick death.
A war crime is a war crime. I wish this board would just admit that they don’t actually care about war crimes and actually cheer them on in some instances as long as the right side is committing them.
I mean that’s fine if you do, just own it.
Posted on 4/6/22 at 2:09 pm to wutangfinancial
quote:
Believing that crushing Russia's economy from nothing to more nothingness is worth the political risks of those policies is very shortsided
How did you read his reply to your assertion that Putin is "the best player on the world stage" and decide this reply was the best to go with?
You did nothing to address the conflicting information he provided to your claim. Well, nothing besides laying guilt at the feet of the US and other countries who imposed sanctions.
Posted on 4/6/22 at 2:11 pm to Lakeboy7
quote:
And they impede combat operations. Joachim Pieper argued (successfully) this in defense of of the Malmedy massacre.
So you’re good with Russians executing prisoners who impede their combat operations?
Posted on 4/6/22 at 2:14 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
So you’re good with Russians executing prisoners who impede their combat operations?
Enemy combatants? you could make a case. Civilians no.
Posted on 4/6/22 at 2:24 pm to Lakeboy7
quote:
Enemy combatants? you could make a case. Civilians no.
Of course, but as you know that distinction is very difficult to make sometimes.
Take for instance the video of the bicyclist that’s been all over the media today. That dude was all by himself in the middle of what was clearly a combat zone and very slowly eased around the corner to find a Russian tank looking right at him. That Russian kid in the gunner’s seat could have very reasonably deemed him a threat out of either fear or lack of training. The bicyclist could have been observing the Russians for possible artillery strikes or to gather intel for his buddies.
End result is bicyclist is dead and the media plays it at least once an hour to an ignorant public giving the impression that it’s some cold blooded murder for absolutely no reason at all when I’m reality there about 100 other extremely plausible reasons for shooting that guy that don’t include “evil Russian barbarians kill everything they see.”
Which begs the question, why is the media not playing video of Russian war crimes that are completely cut and dry? Why do they have to resort to one that is rather murky at best? And why don’t they give coverage to the very cut and dry war crime videos like the Ukrainian soldiers kneecapping all of their prisoners or the reported one of Georgians executing prisoners(to be fair I haven’t seen this one)?
The western media is absolutely giving one sided reporting on the war and it’s got nothing to do with profit influences. They’ve picked a side and they’re running with it.
Posted on 4/6/22 at 2:34 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
The western media is absolutely giving one sided reporting on the war and it’s got nothing to do with profit influences. They’ve picked a side and they’re running with it.
Then why would the NYT bother reporting that Ukrainians were killing Russian POWs? why aren't they just sweeping it under the rug?
Also I don't really have a problem with them "picking a side." They probably don't want to the side that regularly imprisons and disappears dissenting journalists to win, and i don't blame them.
This post was edited on 4/6/22 at 2:39 pm
Posted on 4/6/22 at 2:41 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
hich begs the question, why is the media not playing video of Russian war crimes that are completely cut and dry? Why do they have to resort to one that is rather murky at best? And why don’t they give coverage to the very cut and dry war crime videos like the Ukrainian soldiers kneecapping all of their prisoners or the reported one of Georgians executing prisoners(to be fair I haven’t seen this one)?
I can concede that this is a good point at a high level, but I have seen Western Media cover them, at least to a small degree.
With that said, the knee capping video got this response from the Ukraine government:
Kyiv will investigate video that appears to show Ukrainian forces shooting Russian prisoners of war
(now whether or not they do is a different story)
And here is what Russia says about their apparent war crimes:
Kremlin says Bucha is 'monstrous forgery' aimed at smearing Russia
Posted on 4/6/22 at 2:42 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
Which begs the question, why is the media not playing video of Russian war crimes that are completely cut and dry?
Tell the Russians to send some tape to CNN and Fox of their soldiers committing atrocities and I bet they’d run with it.
Posted on 4/6/22 at 2:42 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
Of course, but as you know that distinction is very difficult to make sometimes.
Sure. And I'm not disagreeing there is bias but Putin made it easy for him to the the bad guy. Plus on a personal level I dont like Russians so everything fits my bias so I'm good to go.
Posted on 4/6/22 at 2:44 pm to REG861
Here is a breakdown on the Russian pow video. Again this isn’t mine but thought some you smarter military boys could chime in
quote:
For one, the still-frame they posted wasn’t even a POW, it’s a Ukrainian soldier holding up stuff they captured for the camera. Based on the striped shirts visible, it appears this was an VDV unit ambushed on their BMD-2. This vehicle holds 2 inside as the driver and gunner, while the rest ride on top.
The guys on top were gunned down and you can see the BMD’s track marks leading from their bodies to the side of the road where it swerved off and stopped. The BMD itself seems mostly unharmed so they didn’t use any AT weapons on it.
Ukrainians claim on camera to have captured two officers alive, presumably because they had the privilege of riding inside the BMD. The video ends with the misleading still-frame posted by NYT as the Ukrainians celebrate after restarting the BMD-2’s engine. As for the one they shot, you can see at the start of the Telegram video.
If you go to the NYT update, you can get a direct link to the video, but automod filters out telegram links so I can’t post it here. The one Ukrainian soldiers shot was twitching in a pool of blood and in apparent agonal breathing. There was also another mostly dead Russian soldier on his stomach with hands tied behind his back with an obviously fatal brain injury, but the Ukrainians didn’t bother with finishing him off.
tl;dr: You can argue that a coup de grace of a severely wounded soldier is still a war crime, but the video does not support NYT’s implied summary execution of healthy POWs
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