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Started By
Message
re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 12/20/24 at 12:05 am to John Barron
Posted on 12/20/24 at 12:05 am to John Barron
1
Posted on 12/20/24 at 3:32 am to John Barron
Kyiv authorities report aftermath of Russian missile attack on capital - photos
20.12.2024 10:10
One person was killed, and nine others were injured as a result of a Russian missile strike on Kyiv in the morning of December 20. Also, 630 residential buildings, 16 medical facilities, 17 schools, and 13 kindergartens have been left without heat in Holosiivskyi district.
As reported by Ukrinform, Kyiv Mayor Vitalii Klitschko shared this information on Telegram.
"Nine people were injured in the enemy attack on the capital. Four of them were hospitalized," Klitschko stated.
The mayor also noted that the body of one deceased individual had been recovered.
Later Klitschko reported that the enemy attack caused damage to a heating pipeline in Kyiv’s Holosiivskyi district, resulting in the current lack of heat in 630 residential buildings, 16 medical facilities, 17 schools, and 13 kindergartens.
Repair teams from Kyivteploenergo (heat supply company) have already begun working to address the large-scale damage, the mayor emphasized.
Ukrinform / photo gallery
20.12.2024 10:10
One person was killed, and nine others were injured as a result of a Russian missile strike on Kyiv in the morning of December 20. Also, 630 residential buildings, 16 medical facilities, 17 schools, and 13 kindergartens have been left without heat in Holosiivskyi district.
As reported by Ukrinform, Kyiv Mayor Vitalii Klitschko shared this information on Telegram.
"Nine people were injured in the enemy attack on the capital. Four of them were hospitalized," Klitschko stated.
The mayor also noted that the body of one deceased individual had been recovered.
Later Klitschko reported that the enemy attack caused damage to a heating pipeline in Kyiv’s Holosiivskyi district, resulting in the current lack of heat in 630 residential buildings, 16 medical facilities, 17 schools, and 13 kindergartens.
Repair teams from Kyivteploenergo (heat supply company) have already begun working to address the large-scale damage, the mayor emphasized.
Ukrinform / photo gallery
Posted on 12/20/24 at 3:37 am to cypher
Holiday Inn sign at the very end....
On the morning of December 20, the Russians launched a missile attack on civilian targets in Kyiv.
Libkos exclusively for Ukrinform
On the morning of December 20, the Russians launched a missile attack on civilian targets in Kyiv.
Libkos exclusively for Ukrinform
Loading Twitter/X Embed...
If tweet fails to load, click here.Posted on 12/20/24 at 3:41 am to cypher
St. Nicholas Church in central Kyiv damaged by rocket attack
Ukrinform
background on church:
Anton Gerashchenko
@Gerashchenko_en
St. Nicholas Roman Catholic Church was damaged by the Russian attack on Kyiv today.
The Church of St. Nicholas is the second oldest Catholic church standing in Kyiv. It was constructed in 1899–1909.
Ukrinform
Loading Twitter/X Embed...
If tweet fails to load, click here. background on church:
Anton Gerashchenko
@Gerashchenko_en
St. Nicholas Roman Catholic Church was damaged by the Russian attack on Kyiv today.
The Church of St. Nicholas is the second oldest Catholic church standing in Kyiv. It was constructed in 1899–1909.
This post was edited on 12/20/24 at 4:03 am
Posted on 12/20/24 at 5:30 am to VolSquatch
quote:
This highlights the problem with that policy... what happens when a larger country calls your bluff? Sure, the US has helped Ukraine stay in this fight WAY longer than most would have predicted. But the end result will be roughly the same as it would have been if a deal had happened in 2022 or possibly not even as good at this point. So the best case is that we failed but we also made Russia struggle some?
There is merit in having a weakened Russia, but we all know the primary reason: Money laundering
Posted on 12/20/24 at 6:18 am to doubleb
quote:
I asked the question because I have never seen the rough drafts. Do you know what they said?
LINK (WSJ)
Good summary IMO
quote:
While the broad outlines of the ultimately unsuccessful peace negotiations have been disclosed, the full 17-page document, which was viewed by The Wall Street Journal and others familiar with the negotiations, hasn’t been made public.
quote:
The document shows the deep concessions negotiators on both the Russian and Ukrainian sides were considering as Kyiv struggled in the early weeks of the war. For Russia, it was a moment when it realized Ukrainian defenses had caught its troops off guard. But it also serves as a reminder of the compromises that Russia might try to force Ukraine to swallow if Western military support dries up and Russia makes significant territorial gains.
The draft treaty states that Ukraine, while being allowed to pursue European Union membership, wouldn’t be allowed to join military alliances such as the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. No foreign weapons would be allowed on Ukrainian soil. Ukraine’s military would be pared down to a specific size. Russia sought to limit everything from the number of troops and tanks to the maximum firing range of Ukrainian missiles
The Crimean Peninsula, already occupied by Russia, would remain under Moscow’s influence and not be considered neutral. Moscow also pushed for the Russian language to operate on an equal basis with Ukrainian in government and courts, a clause Kyiv hadn’t signed off on, according to the draft document.
The future of the area of eastern Ukraine covertly invaded and occupied by Russia in 2014, wasn’t included in the draft, leaving it up to Putin and Zelensky to complete in face-to-face talks. That meeting never took place.
The treaty was to be guaranteed by foreign powers, which are listed on the document as including the U.S., U.K, China, France and Russia. Those countries would be given the responsibility to defend Ukraine’s neutrality if the treaty were violated. But while the treaty held, guarantors would be required to “terminate international treaties and agreements incompatible with the permanent neutrality of Ukraine” including any promises of bilateral military aid. The international security guarantees wouldn’t apply to Crimea and Sevastopol.
quote:
The draft treaty with Ukraine included banning foreign weapons, “including missile weapons of any type, armed forces and formations.” Moscow wanted Ukraine’s armed forces capped at 85,000 troops, 342 tanks and 519 artillery pieces. Ukrainian negotiators wanted 250,000 troops, 800 tanks and 1,900 artillery pieces, according to the document. Russia wanted to have the range of Ukrainian missiles capped at 40 kilometers (about 25 miles).
Other issues remained outstanding, notably what would happen if Ukraine was attacked. Russia wanted all guarantor states to agree on a response, meaning a unified response was unlikely if Russia itself was the aggressor. In case of an attack on Ukraine, Ukrainian negotiators wanted its airspace to then be closed, which would require guarantor states to enforce a no-fly zone, and the provision of weapons by the guarantors, a clause not approved by Russia.
Russia wanted to add Belarus as a guarantor; Ukraine wanted to add Turkey. Ukrainian negotiators italicized text indicating they refused to discuss a Russian clause requesting Kyiv withdraw claims for it to come under the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court, which prosecutes war crimes, according to the document. They also wouldn’t ratify a clause to cancel all mutual sanctions.
ETA Cypher beat me to it
This post was edited on 12/20/24 at 6:21 am
Posted on 12/20/24 at 6:21 am to StormyMcMan
ISW Update Dec 20
quote:
Key Takeaways:
Russian President Vladimir Putin said that he should have violated the ceasefire he had imposed on Ukraine in 2014 by launching a full-scale invasion even earlier when asked to reflect on his 2022 decision to attack.
Putin insisted that negotiations with Ukraine must be based on the same demands he made before the invasion and at the moment of Russia's greatest territorial gains, despite the fact that Ukraine has secured Kyiv and liberated much of the territory his forces held at that time.
Putin's insistence on Ukraine's complete surrender reflects his belief that Russia is winning and will outlast Ukrainian and Western resolve. Putin will not likely accept a lesser settlement unless Ukrainian forces inflict other significant battlefield setbacks on Russia and demonstrate to him that he cannot win militarily.
Putin reiterated the false narrative that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's presidency is illegitimate, in part, to blame Ukraine for delaying negotiations and garner support for full Ukrainian capitulation among a Russian population that increasingly wants the war to end.
Putin continues to justify his decision to prioritize Russian offensive operations in Donetsk Oblast over expelling Ukrainian forces from Kursk Oblast.
Putin is apparently embarrassed to admit his need for North Korean forces to push Ukrainian forces out of Russian territory, despite his openness about the Russia-North Korea relationship.
Putin continues to fixate on the Russian "Oreshnik" ballistic missile as part of his non-nuclear deterrent aimed at simultaneously forcing the West to make decisions favorable to Russia and providing Putin with an off-ramp from his failed nuclear saber-rattling narrative.
Putin's boasting about Russia's military capabilities ignores the reality of the serious and unsustainable losses that Russia has suffered to advance relatively more rapidly in Donetsk Oblast in recent months.
Putin continues to falsely posture the Russian economy as strong and stable while deflecting blame for economic issues onto the Russian Central Bank.
Russian forces recently advanced near Kupyansk, Toretsk, Kurakhove, Vuhledar, Velyka Novosilka, and Robotyne.
Russian President Vladimir Putin continued efforts to evade blame for ongoing systemic payment issues impacting Russian servicemembers fighting in Kursk Oblast caused by his decision to downplay Ukraine's incursion into the region as a "counterterrorism operation" by scapegoating the Russian Ministry of Defense.
Russian President Vladimir Putin called on Mariupol occupation officials to redistribute illegally confiscated Ukrainian apartments during his annual Direct Line televised press conference on December 19, signaling Russia's continued efforts to forcibly repopulate occupied areas of Ukraine with Russians to fundamentally alter Ukraine's demographics.
Posted on 12/20/24 at 6:46 am to StormyMcMan
Random tweets
LINK
Interesting use of the word engaged rather than hit or destroyed
LINK
LINK
LINK
LINK
quote:
U.S. spent $30 million maintaining a yacht belonging to a Russian billionaire
The vessel in question is the confiscated yacht Amadea, owned by Russian oligarch Suleiman Kerimov. The cost of maintaining the yacht amounted to $30 million for the U.S. government.
More than half of this sum went to the company National Maritime Services, which handled the transportation of the yacht from Fiji to a U.S. port.
Significant funds were also spent on flights for U.S. government officials to and from Fiji, vehicle rentals, and the purchase of uniforms and provisions for a crew of 30 sailors.
LINK
quote:
Russian Ministry of Defence:
"On 18 December 2024, the AFU launched a missile strike at the Kombinat Kamensky enterprise in Rostov region by six U.S.-made ATACMS operational-tactical missiles and four Storm Shadow air-based cruise missiles from the territory of Ukraine.
This morning, in response to the actions of the Kiev regime supported by Western countries, the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation delivered a group strike by long-range precision weaponry at a command post of the Security Service of Ukraine, the Luch Design Bureau, which develops and manufactures Neptune missile systems and Olkha MLRS ground-based cruise missiles, as well as hit positions of a Patriot SAM system.
The goals of the strike has been achieved. All the targets have been engaged."
Interesting use of the word engaged rather than hit or destroyed
quote:
Slovak Prime Minister Robert Fico: “If Zelenskyy doesn't release our gas, it could be a serious conflict”
Fico was dissatisfied with the position of Zelenskyy, who emphasized that Ukraine would not extend the agreement on Russian gas transit.
"I do not rule out that in this situation we in Slovakia will have to think about retaliatory measures," Fico warned speaking in Brussels.
LINK
quote:
Ukrainian Foreign Ministry shows photos of foreign embassies damaged after strike on Kyiv
Diplomatic missions of Albania, Argentina, Palestine, North Macedonia, Portugal, and Montenegro were affected by the shelling of Kyiv, according to the Ukrainian Foreign Ministry as reported by Current Time.
Earlier today, Russian forces struck Kyiv, damaging a heating pipeline and a gas pipe, leaving 630 residential buildingswithout heat.
LINK
quote:
Biden administration preparing $1.2 billion military aid package for Ukraine, — Reuters.
It will include air defense missiles and artillery ammunition, but the exact contents are expected when the package is announced in the coming days.
LINK
quote:
Switzerland will allocate more than €48 million to help Ukraine during the winter period, the Swiss government's website reports.
The funds will be used to restore energy infrastructure, repair damaged housing and cover urgent humanitarian needs.
LINK
Posted on 12/20/24 at 7:15 am to StormyMcMan
Thanks you
I appreciate your efforts.
Let me ask this question, how were the six nations involved going to enforce a treaty like that?
I appreciate your efforts.
Let me ask this question, how were the six nations involved going to enforce a treaty like that?
Posted on 12/20/24 at 8:53 am to Lee B
quote:
How can this be? Is the problem finding plant workers who are qualified?
Passing a 3rd grade reading comprehension test and a drug screen has been an issue for 2 decades. Before then it was just the drug screen being an issue. I have been told by lifelong personal friends who are now retired chemical plant process operations trainers (new hires go through training at company expense before going to work) that 70-80% cannot pass the reading comprehension test. Of those who fail the drug screen, the vast majority is not due to marijuana. Automation doesn't work like the internet says it has. That already happened in the late 1980s through early 1990s.
Industrial construction companies have seen this looming issue back in the late 1990's. While younger generations bitch and moan about boomers, they have yet to fill the shoes of boomers.
Posted on 12/20/24 at 8:57 am to StormyMcMan
quote:
U.S. spent $30 million maintaining a yacht belonging to a Russian billionaire
The vessel in question is the confiscated yacht Amadea, owned by Russian oligarch Suleiman Kerimov. The cost of maintaining the yacht amounted to $30 million for the U.S. government.
More than half of this sum went to the company National Maritime Services, which handled the transportation of the yacht from Fiji to a U.S. port.
Significant funds were also spent on flights for U.S. government officials to and from Fiji, vehicle rentals, and the purchase of uniforms and provisions for a crew of 30 sailors.
That is criminal. This federal government is disgraceful. Massive corruption.
Turn Elon and Vivek loose on them. I hope Trump sends Elon and Vivek with Kellogg to negotiate an end to this.
I would like to know exactly how much our worthless federal government has actually spent on this adventure of"weakening" Russia.
Trillions upon trillion wasted in the lat 20 years. 35-36 trillion in debt.
This post was edited on 12/20/24 at 9:08 am
Posted on 12/20/24 at 9:59 am to Stinger_1066
quote:
There is merit in having a weakened Russia, but we all know the primary reason: Money laundering
We've forced Russia to onshore their economy, and develop it further than otherwise would have. So we've actually made them stronger.
The other issue is that the territorial losses will be much more severe.
Posted on 12/20/24 at 12:35 pm to CitizenK
quote:
Passing a 3rd grade reading comprehension test
Can we institute this as a requirement for this thread?>
Posted on 12/20/24 at 12:37 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
We've forced Russia to onshore their economy, and develop it further than otherwise would have. So we've actually made them stronger.
I do feel China and/or Russia will emerge from this stronger than they would have been otherwise. That is an interesting perspective though, given the other reporting shared here about how dire the economic situation is in Russia.
Posted on 12/20/24 at 12:48 pm to Stinger_1066
quote:
There is merit in having a weakened Russia, but we all know the primary reason: Money laundering
What a dumbass.
Posted on 12/20/24 at 12:50 pm to AU86
quote:
That is criminal. This federal government is disgraceful. Massive corruption.
Turn Elon and Vivek loose on them. I hope Trump sends Elon and Vivek with Kellogg to negotiate an end to this.
I would like to know exactly how much our worthless federal government has actually spent on this adventure of"weakening" Russia.
Trillions upon trillion wasted in the lat 20 years. 35-36 trillion in debt.
Yeah, why are we maintaining a seized Russian yacht instead of selling it and sending the money to Ukraine? Make Russia pay for this war
Posted on 12/20/24 at 12:53 pm to GOP_Tiger
Posted on 12/20/24 at 12:55 pm to GOP_Tiger
Just a couple of actors shaking hands with each other
Posted on 12/20/24 at 1:04 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
Trump’s team has told European officials that the [he] will demand NATO member states increase defence spending to 5% of GDP
So how much would 5% of GDP be for the US?
Posted on 12/20/24 at 1:20 pm to GOP_Tiger
Just another Southpark Under Pants Gnome
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