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Message
re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 3/5/22 at 8:40 pm to upgrayedd
Posted on 3/5/22 at 8:40 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
You don't support giving them those necessary and much needed fighter jets?
A) I want them to have it
B) I don’t know how to get them to Ukraine without it triggering WWIII
So,
C) My default position is that the jets should stay in Poland until a more creative solution to B) can be worked out.
2
Posted on 3/5/22 at 8:41 pm to BuckyCheese
I'm just a Putin apologist for not wanting to escalate this thing into a massive regional, possibly nuclear engagement that will send the globe into a massive economic depression and will kill millions of people .
Posted on 3/5/22 at 8:41 pm to UndercoverBryologist
quote:
A) I want them to have it
B) I don’t know how to get them to Ukraine without it triggering WWIII
So,
C) My default position is that the jets should stay in Poland until a more creative solution to B) can be worked out.
Congrats, you’re sane.
Posted on 3/5/22 at 8:42 pm to UndercoverBryologist
quote:
A) I want them to have it
B) I don’t know how to get them to Ukraine without it triggering WWIII
So,
C) My default position is that the jets should stay in Poland until a more creative solution to B) can be worked out.
Posted on 3/5/22 at 8:43 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
why the people who have been screaming about how NATO needs to go kinetic are now sheepish
Who are these people in this thread? I haven't seen any of the regular posters even suggesting that nato should deploy in the warzone or otherwise directly engage russia in military combat.
Can you show me those posters? Again, I'm not talking about randos who have like 3 or less posts in this thread.
Posted on 3/5/22 at 8:43 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
The majority of the people in this thread haven't been advocating for overt NATO involvement including establishment of no fly zones?
I asked about Western countries giving drones to Ukraine, Russia isn’t Iraq so we all know how a no fly zone would end.
Posted on 3/5/22 at 8:43 pm to UndercoverBryologist
As far as I can see, there are no rules of war going on here fella.
This post was edited on 3/5/22 at 8:46 pm
Posted on 3/5/22 at 8:46 pm to caill430
Anyone still interested in the conflict itself:
A great article written before the war about Russian military logistics "FEEDING THE BEAR: A CLOSER LOOK AT RUSSIAN ARMY LOGISTICS AND THE FAIT ACCOMPLI". It is on the War on the Rocks website and all their work is done by military professionals and well researched. It gives great insight into the issues Russia is having especially how their logistics is railroad centric and hints at Russia's
War on the Rocks
Anyone wanting to get more insight into the actual nuts and bolts of modern war-making will find a trove of information on the site.
I also learned Russia works on a logistics push system where the US and most capable nations use a pull system. We don't randomly send resupply based on pre-battle modeling, we send what is needed where on a continuous basis. The Russian military logistics leaders send resupply where they think they will need it based on their priorities. So you have units running out of fuel, parts and food while they have plenty of ammo because they did not anticipate using those up before they accomplished their mission. Their supply chains are simply not set up to react quickly in dynamic operations.
A great article written before the war about Russian military logistics "FEEDING THE BEAR: A CLOSER LOOK AT RUSSIAN ARMY LOGISTICS AND THE FAIT ACCOMPLI". It is on the War on the Rocks website and all their work is done by military professionals and well researched. It gives great insight into the issues Russia is having especially how their logistics is railroad centric and hints at Russia's
War on the Rocks
Anyone wanting to get more insight into the actual nuts and bolts of modern war-making will find a trove of information on the site.
I also learned Russia works on a logistics push system where the US and most capable nations use a pull system. We don't randomly send resupply based on pre-battle modeling, we send what is needed where on a continuous basis. The Russian military logistics leaders send resupply where they think they will need it based on their priorities. So you have units running out of fuel, parts and food while they have plenty of ammo because they did not anticipate using those up before they accomplished their mission. Their supply chains are simply not set up to react quickly in dynamic operations.
This post was edited on 3/5/22 at 8:51 pm
Posted on 3/5/22 at 8:47 pm to caill430
quote:
As far as I can see, there is no rules of war going on here fella.
Actually, all things considered, everything external to Ukraine’s borders has been downright civilized compared to the scope of human history. If this was 1939, UK and France would consider this a violation of the Budapest Memorandum and instantly have declare war on Russia.
In 2022, NATO is playing this exceedingly well. We told Ukraine we can’t enforce a no-fly zone but we are doing everything else in our power to help them.
Posted on 3/5/22 at 8:48 pm to Obtuse1
quote:amateur hour
So you have units running out of fuel, parts and food while they have plenty of ammo because they did not anticipate using those up before they accomplished their mission. Their supply chains are simply not set up to react quickly in dynamic operations.
Posted on 3/5/22 at 8:50 pm to Obtuse1
As to the idea of the US supplying fighter planes even outside the diplomatic issues who in Ukraine is going to fly our planes? Unless we have a bunch of Migs used as OPFOR in training that are combat-capable and we will give away then this is just wishcasting or in a way doomcasting.
Posted on 3/5/22 at 8:51 pm to Obtuse1
I assume the new plan is the same as the old. Give them Polish migs
Posted on 3/5/22 at 8:52 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
As to the idea of the US supplying fighter planes even outside the diplomatic issues who in Ukraine is going to fly our planes?
They weren’t going to come from the US. These were (are?) to be old Polish MiGs from before 1989.
Posted on 3/5/22 at 8:52 pm to Obtuse1
Russia is right now or soon to be in the Spring Muddy Season. It takes about a month for things to dry out. After the Spring Muddy Season, Russia's offensive might gain a bit more traction.
We shall see, but, I expect Russia to be persistent. Nobody believes that Ukraine's military can defeat a determined Russian effort to win the war.
I don't expect any Western military forces to go into Ukraine to fight Russians.
That's my 2 cents at the moment.
We shall see, but, I expect Russia to be persistent. Nobody believes that Ukraine's military can defeat a determined Russian effort to win the war.
I don't expect any Western military forces to go into Ukraine to fight Russians.
That's my 2 cents at the moment.
Posted on 3/5/22 at 8:52 pm to Obtuse1
I think the rumor was a week ago that poland had a bunch of older sukois or whatever.
Poland gives the sukois to Ukraine and we give f16s and/or f35s to poland.
But that was all rumor and probably bullshite anyway.
Poland gives the sukois to Ukraine and we give f16s and/or f35s to poland.
But that was all rumor and probably bullshite anyway.
Posted on 3/5/22 at 8:52 pm to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
Who are these people in this thread? I haven't seen any of the regular posters even suggesting that nato should deploy in the warzone or otherwise directly engage russia in military combat.
Can you show me those posters? Again, I'm not talking about randos who have like 3 or less posts in this thread.
I guess I could be missing the tone of the conversation here. Have people not been advocating for involvement in this conflict? We're not advocating for sneaking Mig 29's, T-72's, and BMP's into Ukraine? What's the plan if/when Ukraine falls? Are we gonna Charlie Wilson the place?
Posted on 3/5/22 at 8:54 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
Unless we have a bunch of Migs used as OPFOR in training that are combat-capable and we will give away then this is just wishcasting or in a way doomcasting.
I mean, what the hell would be the lead time to get these things operational even if they are in Europe?
Posted on 3/5/22 at 8:56 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
We're not advocating for sneaking Mig 29's, T-72's, and BMP's into Ukraine?
I can’t vouch for every poster in this thread, but from my perspective the general tone on this issue in this thread has been “would be nice for them to have them, but not feasible to deliver them.”
Posted on 3/5/22 at 8:56 pm to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
I think the rumor was a week ago that poland had a bunch of older sukois or whatever.
Poland gives the sukois to Ukraine and we give f16s and/or f35s to poland.
Lockheed lookin like
Posted on 3/5/22 at 8:56 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
I guess I could be missing the tone of the conversation here. Have people not been advocating for involvement in this conflict? We're not advocating for sneaking Mig 29's, T-72's, and BMP's into Ukraine?
Sure people have advocated for giving lethal aid, as the US and others have done for years.
But you just claimed that people have been SCREAMING for direct combat engagement against russian forces by nato nations. Can you show me these people? You made the claim.
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