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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 8/2/24 at 2:11 pm to
Posted by REG861
Ocelot, Iowa
Member since Oct 2011
38158 posts
Posted on 8/2/24 at 2:11 pm to
quote:

Putin and virtually the entire Russian body politic said NATO-to-Ukraine would mean war


Because it meant they would be losing a would be imperialist possession for their third rate, collapsing scenery empire. Sorry but that’s not grounds for a pre emptive invasion.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
138772 posts
Posted on 8/2/24 at 2:21 pm to
quote:

Sorry but that’s not grounds for a pre emptive invasion.
I agree. But that is a different issue. The question raised is one of failed diplomacy and/or provocation, inadvertent or otherwise.
Posted by texag7
College Station
Member since Apr 2014
41298 posts
Posted on 8/2/24 at 2:25 pm to
Biden and Harris admin provoked the invasion by begging for Ukraine to get NATO membership
Posted by Lee B
Member since Dec 2018
3945 posts
Posted on 8/2/24 at 2:35 pm to
quote:

Biden and Harris admin provoked the invasion by begging for Ukraine to get NATO membership


got a legitimate sauce to go with that b.s. pasta?
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
15665 posts
Posted on 8/2/24 at 3:12 pm to
quote:

got a legitimate sauce to go with that b.s. pasta?


His source is from someone like Col. MacGregor who most recently thought that 207,000 pounds of Boar's Head deli meat was worth $28B, or $135 a pound at the local WalMart.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
138772 posts
Posted on 8/2/24 at 3:15 pm to
quote:

got a legitimate sauce to go with that b.s. pasta?
Leaked drafts of NATO, US responses to Russia are surprisingly revealing
Have you ever heard the saying, 'you should talk to the organ grinder, not his monkey'?
LINK
Posted by Lee B
Member since Dec 2018
3945 posts
Posted on 8/2/24 at 3:22 pm to
I should've bolded and underlined "legit."

"Leaked NATO documents... in Spanish!
Posted by REG861
Ocelot, Iowa
Member since Oct 2011
38158 posts
Posted on 8/2/24 at 3:37 pm to
quote:

Biden and Harris admin provoked the invasion by begging for Ukraine to get NATO membership


I’m sure there were plenty of people saying w provoked Japan into invading the pacific arena too at the time. History has proven them to be idiots.
Posted by texag7
College Station
Member since Apr 2014
41298 posts
Posted on 8/2/24 at 3:40 pm to
quote:

got a legitimate sauce to go with that b.s. pasta?


A legit source for you being what? MSNBC and CNN?
Posted by WestCoastAg
Member since Oct 2012
150127 posts
Posted on 8/2/24 at 3:52 pm to
A legit source for you is what? Greenwald?
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42603 posts
Posted on 8/2/24 at 3:52 pm to
quote:

Biden and Harris admin provoked the invasion by begging for Ukraine to get NATO membership


Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014. What did the two clowns in charge now have to do with that?
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42603 posts
Posted on 8/2/24 at 3:55 pm to
quote:

I agree. But that is a different issue. The question raised is one of failed diplomacy and/or provocation, inadvertent or otherwise.


Putin saw the opportunity and took it.
Ukraine was in turmoil, and he knew Obama wouldn’t do anything to jeopardize his foreign policy so he invaded Crimea and entered the Donbas “officially”.

Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
138772 posts
Posted on 8/2/24 at 4:26 pm to
quote:

"Leaked NATO documents... in Spanish!
Goodness! Responsible Statecraft reporting on a leaked document is not legit? or does a foreign language delegitimize sourcing? or do you need to hear it on The View? or perhaps Rachel Maddow on a Spanish network?

Times of Israel

USAToday

PBS

Spectrum News

I could list 40 more references to the leaked materials. Further, the Biden Administration leaked incendiary US-Ukraine conversations regarding Ukraine's NATO path to the Chinese, who in turn passed them to Moscow. Concomitantly, Kyiv announced to the press that Washington said the path to NATO membership was in Ukraine's hands. All at the same time the US was supposedly carrying on good faith dialogue with Moscow.

Got it nitwit?



Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
138772 posts
Posted on 8/2/24 at 4:38 pm to
quote:

What did the two clowns in charge now have to do with that?
You're kidding?

What did Obama-Biden-Clinton .... and Soros .... and their US backed coup d'état in Kyiv have to do with the Crimean takeover? Are you serious?

I ask because you're a bright guy who I'd assume knows those answers .... in great detail.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
138772 posts
Posted on 8/2/24 at 4:48 pm to
quote:

I agree. But that is a different issue. The question raised is one of failed diplomacy and/or provocation, inadvertent or otherwise.
---

Putin saw the opportunity and took it.
Perhaps so.

One thing is for certain: When he made his decision to cut dialogue, he thought the opportunity was to kick arse in Ukraine, show off Russian might, have his way, then tell the West "F U for involvement in the Russian sphere of influence."

It didn't quite work out that way for good ole Vlad.

War is funny that way.
It's like Forrest's proverbial "Box of Chocolates;" you never know what you're gonna get. Putin got chocolate covered sh*t.
This post was edited on 8/2/24 at 4:50 pm
Posted by WeeWee
Member since Aug 2012
45549 posts
Posted on 8/2/24 at 4:54 pm to
1. Who let the clowns back in?

2. It looks like atleast 4 F16s have been transferred to Ukraine.

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Posted by tigeraddict
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2007
14806 posts
Posted on 8/2/24 at 4:56 pm to
quote:

What did Obama-Biden-Clinton .... and Soros .... and their US backed coup d'état in Kyiv have to do with the Crimean takeover? Are you serious? I ask because you're a bright guy who I'd assume knows those answers .... in great detail.


The “coup” that overthrew the Russian bought president……

All sides are playing the geopolitical game. The “coup” may have had some us backing but the Ukrainian people took to the streets in great numbers to run the Russian puppet out.

When Russias couldn’t buy Ukraine the invaded Crimea and started a coup in the Donbas and supplied troops to make it happen. I would say Russia was more involved in a Ukrainian coup than the west.

Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
138772 posts
Posted on 8/2/24 at 5:14 pm to
quote:

History has proven them to be idiots.
Idiots?
PROVEN????

Really?
Seriously?

For your edification, """history""" is WRITTEN by the victors.
HOWEVER, facts are facts, and actual history is comprised of them.

Whatever you think based on retrospective outcome, had we not taken extremely aggressive economic action against Japan pre-WWII, Pearl Harbor would never have occurred.
quote:

In June 1940, Henry L. Stimson, who had been secretary of war under Taft and secretary of state under Hoover, became secretary of war again. Stimson was a lion of the Anglophile, northeastern upper crust and no friend of the Japanese. In support of the so-called Open Door Policy for China, Stimson favored the use of economic sanctions to obstruct Japan’s advance in Asia. Treasury Secretary Henry Morgenthau and Interior Secretary Harold Ickes vigorously endorsed this policy. Roosevelt hoped that such sanctions would goad the Japanese into making a rash mistake by launching a war against the United States, which would bring in Germany because Japan and Germany were allied.

Accordingly, the Roosevelt administration, while curtly dismissing Japanese diplomatic overtures to harmonize relations, imposed a series of increasingly stringent economic sanctions on Japan. In 1939 the United States terminated the 1911 commercial treaty with Japan. “On July 2, 1940, Roosevelt signed the Export Control Act, authorizing the President to license or prohibit the export of essential defense materials.” Under this authority, “[o]n July 31, exports of aviation motor fuels and lubricants and No. 1 heavy melting iron and steel scrap were restricted.” Next, in a move aimed at Japan, Roosevelt slapped an embargo, effective October 16, “on all exports of scrap iron and steel to destinations other than Britain and the nations of the Western Hemisphere.” Finally, on July 26, 1941, Roosevelt “froze Japanese assets in the United States, thus bringing commercial relations between the nations to an effective end. One week later Roosevelt embargoed the export of such grades of oil as still were in commercial flow to Japan.”[2] The British and the Dutch followed suit, embargoing exports to Japan from their colonies in southeast Asia.

An Untenable Position
Roosevelt and his subordinates knew they were putting Japan in an untenable position and that the Japanese government might well try to escape the stranglehold by going to war. Having broken the Japanese diplomatic code, the Americans knew, among many other things, what Foreign Minister Teijiro Toyoda had communicated to Ambassador Kichisaburo Nomura on July 31: “Commercial and economic relations between Japan and third countries, led by England and the United States, are gradually becoming so horribly strained that we cannot endure it much longer. Consequently, our Empire, to save its very life, must take measures to secure the raw materials of the South Seas.”[3]

Because American cryptographers had also broken the Japanese naval code, the leaders in Washington knew as well that Japan’s “measures” would include an attack on Pearl Harbor.[4] Yet they withheld this critical information from the commanders in Hawaii

LINK
Now, if the premise was provoking WWII is the best path to US world dominance, perhaps that is the justification? But make no mistake, WWII, both in Europe and in the Pacific was avoidable.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
138772 posts
Posted on 8/2/24 at 5:31 pm to
quote:

The “coup” that overthrew the Russian bought president……

Like 2020 & Biden was a Chinese bought president?
quote:

The “coup” may have had some us backing
WAIT!
First, "may have had some US backing." R U KIDDING???

quote:

and started a coup in the Donbas
J/c ... WTF do you know of the pre-2014 situation there??
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
15665 posts
Posted on 8/2/24 at 6:15 pm to
quote:

WTF do you know of the pre-2014 situation there??


The then president had promised to apply for EU membership. The legislature passed approval to applying for EU membership. At the last minute the said president opted to withdraw application to the EU. The public protested. Snipers were brought in to shoot protestors. Protests didn't stop. Said president flew away to sugar daddy Putin.

I could say that same about fat phuck Orban who has willingly kept Hungary tied to Russian oil and natural gas since he regained power.
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