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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 6/25/24 at 8:16 am to NC_Tigah
Posted on 6/25/24 at 8:16 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Does it occur that, as Yanukovych kept Ukraine intact and at peace despite the pressures of NATO-Bucharest, he might have been less puppet and more pragmatist?
I don’t know about all that, but the man made millions while in office and was run off after he had his military fire on protesters.
Is that being pragmatic.
1
Posted on 6/25/24 at 8:19 am to doubleb
quote:100% agreed.
The war should never have begun and it should never have been ratcheted up to where it is now.
If we left it there, it would appear we were on the same page.
Posted on 6/25/24 at 8:23 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Now do the other side. Define "victory for Ukraine," and our goal
In a perfect t world it would be Crimea and the Donbas but I don’t think that’s realistic (or in the case of Donbas, advisable). Given Russia’s maximalist intent and superiority in numbers, if the war ended today with an actual cease fire and Ukraine were permitted to join NATO without further military intervention from Russia, I’d say that’s a victory in the scheme of things.
Very rarely in war are there clear cut winners and losers given the human cost. A better way to put it here is: has Russia over or underperformed relative to goals and expectations ? The answer is unequivocally the latter. For Ukraine; it’s unequivocally the former. Retaining their sovereignty is the most important thing here. That was Russia’s goal and they failed miserably. The ROI for Russia has been a historical fail. If a genuine cease fire could be attained, and not an excuse for Putin to recalibrate and relaunch in 6 months time, that’s a victory for Ukraine given the context.
This post was edited on 6/25/24 at 8:26 am
Posted on 6/25/24 at 8:31 am to doubleb
quote:That's the story, as led by 5 Kanal -- one of Ukraine's major news companies, right? Who owns 5 Kanal?
I don’t know about all that, but the man made millions while in office and was run off after he had his military fire on protesters.
Ukraine is historically one of the most corrupt societies on the planet. It's why the NABU construct was so brilliant .... Berianism targeting the opposition could work especially well in a society where success requires skirting law. Obama/Soros saw the opportunity and seized it. But I am certain you're correct, Yanukovych was corrupt.
Posted on 6/25/24 at 8:36 am to REG861
quote:An incredibly important question. Putin and Russia massively underperformed both its own expectations, and those of the West. Were that used to define a Ukrainian win, it could be core to peace, albeit with lasting Russian sanctions/penalties.
has Russia over or underperformed relative to goals and expectations?
Posted on 6/25/24 at 8:44 am to WestCoastAg
quote:
Complete Independence from any level of Russian influence and total acceptance into the western world and alliances
Really not that hard
Total acceptance of western world has resulted in:
-A third of your population displaced with millions who have left and will never return.
-Destroyed the demographics of your country by killing, displacing, or maiming most able bodied males
-Have over half a trillion in infrastructure damage which will take decades to fix
-A disaster of an economy (although I love how the pundits throw 100s of billions in aid into the GDP figure to say its growing)
-A corrupt govt that would make most african dictators blush
Basically a blueprint of most countries where the west is there to help. A few corrupt individuals get filthy rich on the backs of its citizens
But Russia didnt take Kharkiv so you win
Posted on 6/25/24 at 8:47 am to trinidadtiger
All because Putin wanted more and more and more.
Posted on 6/25/24 at 8:48 am to trinidadtiger
This guy in 1945:
Total acceptance of non-fascist world has resulted in:
-A third of your population displaced with millions who have left and will never return.
-Destroyed the demographics of your country by killing, displacing, or maiming most able bodied males
-Have over half a trillion in infrastructure damage which will take decades to fix
-A disaster of an economy (although I love how the pundits throw 100s of billions in aid into the GDP figure to say its growing)
-A corrupt govt that would make most african dictators blush
Basically a blueprint of most countries where the Allies is there to help. A few corrupt individuals get filthy rich on the backs of its citizens
But Germany didnt take Stalingrad so you win
Total acceptance of non-fascist world has resulted in:
-A third of your population displaced with millions who have left and will never return.
-Destroyed the demographics of your country by killing, displacing, or maiming most able bodied males
-Have over half a trillion in infrastructure damage which will take decades to fix
-A disaster of an economy (although I love how the pundits throw 100s of billions in aid into the GDP figure to say its growing)
-A corrupt govt that would make most african dictators blush
Basically a blueprint of most countries where the Allies is there to help. A few corrupt individuals get filthy rich on the backs of its citizens
But Germany didnt take Stalingrad so you win
Posted on 6/25/24 at 8:51 am to GOP_Tiger
Why, when ukraine desperately needs Patriot systems do we send them longer range offensive missiles? Its as if we want to ensure the provocation escalates.
Is this like giving billions to Iran, knowing it will be given to surrogates to start a war in the middle east.....cause it sure sounds like the same thing.
Is this like giving billions to Iran, knowing it will be given to surrogates to start a war in the middle east.....cause it sure sounds like the same thing.
Posted on 6/25/24 at 9:12 am to trinidadtiger
In the American Revolution thousands of young men died in a country of just over 2 million.
Thousands of others lost everything. Some due to the war and some because their dude lost the war. Thousands fled the country.
There were serious economic problems and many hardships. Once prosperous colonies faced economic ruin.
The government created was flawed. It couldn’t serve the people because it didn’t have the money.
What if these patriots had said screw it. Let Britain keep control. Let’s just live under the tyranny of the crown and not fight for our freedom and liberties?
Thousands of others lost everything. Some due to the war and some because their dude lost the war. Thousands fled the country.
There were serious economic problems and many hardships. Once prosperous colonies faced economic ruin.
The government created was flawed. It couldn’t serve the people because it didn’t have the money.
What if these patriots had said screw it. Let Britain keep control. Let’s just live under the tyranny of the crown and not fight for our freedom and liberties?
Posted on 6/25/24 at 9:15 am to trinidadtiger
quote:
Why, when ukraine desperately needs Patriot systems do we send them longer range offensive missiles?
We've sent them plenty of Patriot systems dumbass.
Those missiles are being used to attached military targets near or right over the border of the country that is ATTACKING them. Dumbass.
Posted on 6/25/24 at 9:23 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Ukraine is historically one of the most corrupt societies on the planet
How much of this is because of the malignant presence of Russia/ soviet influence? Every country in Russia’s orbit is a backwater hellhole. Kleptocracy is the way of life. Most of Ukraine has been trying to escape that orbit for a while now.
Posted on 6/25/24 at 10:06 am to texag7
quote:
Tell that to the family of the 12 year old girl just raped, murdered and dumped in a creek in Houston last week by two illegal aliens caught and released by Border Patrol. Murders like this have become common. But I guess these victims families are just losers right?
You are absolutely disgusting in all aspects.
Truth
Biden's America
This post was edited on 6/25/24 at 10:09 am
Posted on 6/25/24 at 10:09 am to REG861
quote:
In a perfect t world it would be Crimea and the Donbas but I don’t think that’s realistic (or in the case of Donbas, advisable). Given Russia’s maximalist intent and superiority in numbers, if the war ended today with an actual cease fire and Ukraine were permitted to join NATO without further military intervention from Russia, I’d say that’s a victory in the scheme of things.
Putin never ever considered Ukraine a separate nation. That's why Nord Stream was even proposed even though the natural gas pipelines going through Poland and Ukraine (mostly Ukraine) have a capacity higher than what has ever been used with even indirect connection to Russia. Putin wanted to cut deliveries through Ukraine so not to pay royalties. Instead spend easily over $20 billion.
France opted long ago not to replace nuke with inexpensive natural gas fired combined cycle plants so not to be dependent on Russia.
Posted on 6/25/24 at 10:19 am to StormyMcMan
quote:Interesting thing for him to say. I wonder what he really has planned.
Budanov stated that a sufficient quantity of US-provided long-range ATACMS missiles could allow Ukrainian forces to strike the Russian-built Kerch Strait Bridge
Posted on 6/25/24 at 11:22 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:
Immigrants, including those here illegally, commit crimes at a lower rate than US citizens born in America.
That’s a lie.
Posted on 6/25/24 at 11:40 am to Lima Whiskey
quote:
That’s a lie.
I don’t know who is right, or who is wrong; however, you seem so to know for sure,
Got a link to the stats?
Posted on 6/25/24 at 11:49 am to texag7
quote:seems like hyperbole
Murders like this have become common
Posted on 6/25/24 at 12:08 pm to doubleb
quote:
FAIR found that in all SCAAP-reporting states along the Southern Border, and in SCAAP-reporting interior states that are preferred destinations for unlawful migrants, illegal aliens are incarcerated at a much higher rate than citizens and lawfully-present aliens.[7]
SCAAP data indicate that illegal aliens are typically at least three times as likely to be incarcerated than citizens and lawfully-present aliens.
LINK
Posted on 6/25/24 at 12:22 pm to Lima Whiskey
Thxs, unfortunately they didn’t study La.
I find it hard to believe illegals would out perform our “residents”.
I find it hard to believe illegals would out perform our “residents”.
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