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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 12/31/23 at 7:37 pm to
Posted by tigeraddict
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2007
14898 posts
Posted on 12/31/23 at 7:37 pm to
Exactly, NATO is a defensive military pact.

Having not membership is what opened Georgia, Chechnya, Ukraine 2014, Ukraine 2022 to a Russian attack. If Ukraine was in nato no attack.
Posted by klrstix
Shreveport, LA
Member since Oct 2006
3598 posts
Posted on 12/31/23 at 7:40 pm to
quote:

Putin for years leading up to this event warned NATO not to allow anymore countries to join NATO that border Russia.


Here is the problem.. you believe what Putin says in the public setting...

Generally, when leaders have a "red line" they do not want to see crossed, they communicate that through channels other than the media....

Posted by StormyMcMan
USA
Member since Oct 2016
4691 posts
Posted on 12/31/23 at 7:53 pm to
quote:

Putin for years leading up to this event warned NATO not to allow anymore countries to join NATO that border Russia. NATO broke the rules a long time ago when Gorbachev dissolved the Warsaw Pact. So Putin, painted by western MSM as the bad guy, said no when Ukraine wanted to join. You would protect your borders too!


I could also provide links where Gorbachev said no deal was made. Basically nothing was signed so you can easily seek out your own confirmation bias. Bottom line nothing was signed.
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42753 posts
Posted on 12/31/23 at 8:21 pm to
Finland and Sweden, two nations that have been very independent and not part of the political West, ran to join NATO when they saw what Putin was doing.

Before that over half a dozen ex Soviet block nations pleaded to get into NATO. Why didn’t they stick with Russia? We all know why.

Putin’s propagandist paint NATO as a military threat. They are an economic threat and a political threat, but a military threat, no way.
This post was edited on 12/31/23 at 8:33 pm
Posted by StormyMcMan
USA
Member since Oct 2016
4691 posts
Posted on 12/31/23 at 8:27 pm to
Isw update

quote:

Key Takeaways:

Russian President Vladimir Putin used his annual New Year's address on December 31 to concretize Russian ideological priorities for 2024, notably omitting any mentions of the war in Ukraine and instead focusing on setting ideological conditions for the upcoming year.

Russian forces conducted another series of missile and drone strikes against Ukraine on the night of December 29 to 30 and on December 31, underscoring a notable recent increase in the percentage of Russian Shahed-136/131 drones penetrating or avoiding Ukrainian air defenses.

Russian forces, particularly Russian airborne (VDV) Forces, are reportedly suffering heavy losses in simultaneous infantry-heavy Russian offensive operations on multiple fronts.

A prominent Kremlin-affiliated Russian milblogger argued that ethnic Russians do not have enough domestic power in Russia while reiterating a common Russian information operation aimed at erasing Ukrainian identity.

Russian and Ukrainian forces conducted positional engagements along the entire line of conduct, but there were no confirmed map changes on December 31.

Russian Presidential Administration First Deputy Head Sergei Kiriyenko is spearheading efforts to consolidate sociocultural control of occupied areas of Ukraine via the information space.


Posted by WestCoastAg
Member since Oct 2012
150445 posts
Posted on 12/31/23 at 8:29 pm to
quote:

If you believe the MSM and government(s) lied about Covid, why would you believe this lie? Second, Biden’s son, Pelosi’s son, John Kerry’s son and the Clinton’s all have/had dealings there. This is a money laundering scheme, stealing your tax dollars and having you cheer for it.
frick. YES
Posted by Hateradedrink
Member since May 2023
4156 posts
Posted on 12/31/23 at 8:31 pm to
He stopped just short of the Pfizer biolabs. Kinda disappointing
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
21035 posts
Posted on 12/31/23 at 9:45 pm to
quote:

So Putin, painted by western MSM as the bad guy
quote:

If you believe the MSM and government(s) lied about Covid
quote:

Putin is not the villain the MSM portrays him to be.



Posted by Hateradedrink
Member since May 2023
4156 posts
Posted on 1/1/24 at 7:17 am to
my favorite part is when they admit that foreign disinformation campaigns work.

the entire intent is to get you to not trust your govt or anything you read

quote:

If you believe the MSM and government(s) lied about Covid, why would you believe this lie?


Sergei is gonna get a bonus after this one
This post was edited on 1/1/24 at 7:17 am
Posted by Lima Whiskey
Member since Apr 2013
22594 posts
Posted on 1/1/24 at 7:20 am to
quote:

the entire intent is to get you to not trust your govt or anything you read


You absolutely should not trust the government or media.
Posted by Hateradedrink
Member since May 2023
4156 posts
Posted on 1/1/24 at 7:21 am to
quote:

You’re fricking retarded on every take on every situation.

If any of you agree with this guy on anything, I strongly recommend re-evaluating your stance
Posted by Lima Whiskey
Member since Apr 2013
22594 posts
Posted on 1/1/24 at 7:28 am to
quote:

Here is the problem.. you believe what Putin says in the public setting...


Putin communicates to western leaders with his public statements. And he’s direct, because he’s Russian, and so that people understand him.

His Munich speech presages everything that Russia has done since he gave it
LINK
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
5734 posts
Posted on 1/1/24 at 8:48 am to
interesting evolution if true...

(((Tendar)))
@Tendar
The Ukrainian SBU released a video of one of their USVs. It shows a spectacular new development. Apparently, Ukrainian USVs are now capable to fire missiles. The video shows an attack against Russian Navy vessels at the port of Russian-occupied Sevastopol.

Twitter video

Posted by JayDeerTay84
Texas
Member since May 2013
9956 posts
Posted on 1/1/24 at 8:53 am to
quote:

the entire intent is to get you to not trust your govt or anything you read


With the last major issues of the past 5 years, our government HAS lied. Its been proven.

Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42753 posts
Posted on 1/1/24 at 9:10 am to
quote:

You absolutely should not trust the government or media.

But you are very astute and know who you can trust and who you can not trust.

I’m sorry but I don’t have the ability to tell when the AP or Fox is lying and done blogger that I’d never heard of is telling the truth like some of you guys do.

Accordingly, if it sounds crazy and unbelievable. I tend to dismiss it.

Posted by immobileman
nowhere in particular
Member since Nov 2014
1862 posts
Posted on 1/1/24 at 9:36 am to
Bt it’s ok that NATO broke the agreement?
Posted by immobileman
nowhere in particular
Member since Nov 2014
1862 posts
Posted on 1/1/24 at 9:37 am to
And if it’s happened that way for years and our so called media doesn’t report it then……
Posted by immobileman
nowhere in particular
Member since Nov 2014
1862 posts
Posted on 1/1/24 at 9:38 am to
Scary and sad you would believe our media.
Posted by immobileman
nowhere in particular
Member since Nov 2014
1862 posts
Posted on 1/1/24 at 9:39 am to
Nothing was signed but Gorbachev say cool I’ll just remove our alies from a defense pact? Not likely.
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
21035 posts
Posted on 1/1/24 at 10:08 am to
quote:

With the last major issues of the past 5 years, our government HAS lied. Its been proven.



Yes, people lie. That includes people in the government and in the media. That's because they are human, and lying is something that humans do.

That doesn't mean that, when your spouse tells you that the sun came up, you naturally question whether he/she is lying.

On the other hand, if your spouse comes in at 4:00 AM with disheveled clothes and hair and tells you that were reading in the library, then you'd be right to think that they might be lying.

In other words, part of having success in understanding the world around you is understanding why people lie, and how likely they are to lie.

What follows is some help in deciding if a government is lying:

In Putin's case, the list of lies is a dozen miles long. Just two years ago, he was saying that Wagner had nothing to do with the Russian government. He was saying that Russia recognizes that Donetsk and Luhansk are part of Ukraine. He ridiculed those who believed the US when the US said that Russia was going to invade Ukraine.

Putin lies constantly, and it's because there are no consequences for it. The Russian media is fully under his control, so anyone who says that Putin is lying is guilty of thoughtcrime, just as in Soviet days. Not only is it illegal to point out the lying (whether one is a peace activist or an ultranationalist like Girkin), everyone is expected to pretend that the lies are true.

That's why North Korean media could (and did) claim that Kim Jong Il invented the hamburger, or that the first time he played golf, he shot a 34 on a regulation golf course by hitting 11 consecutive holes-in-one -- a feat that was attested to by 17 witnesses.

One of the main things that keeps people honest is when others can call them out for lying and ridicule and insult them. In other words, lying doesn't work very well when there are consequences for it.

If someone in our government lies, then voters can replace the liar. We still have 1st-Amendment media freedoms, so media (including media that generally lean towards another political party) can investigate and expose lies. Those consequences limit the level of lying that happens in our country.
This post was edited on 1/1/24 at 10:21 am
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