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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 8/12/23 at 4:34 pm to
Posted by GeauxxxTigers23
TeamBunt General Manager
Member since Apr 2013
62514 posts
Posted on 8/12/23 at 4:34 pm to
quote:

It is a legit possibility. However, I hope that Ukrainian pilots finally starting training on F-16s is a sign that western officials are realizing that half measures are not going to be enough and that they cannot force victories in this war to boost their popularity (Biden and Macron).


I don’t see the F-16 being much of a difference maker. It’s a 40+ year old design, it’s not stealth and it has almost no range.
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
16112 posts
Posted on 8/12/23 at 4:36 pm to
Depends what the F-16 is carrying in weaponry
Posted by GeauxxxTigers23
TeamBunt General Manager
Member since Apr 2013
62514 posts
Posted on 8/12/23 at 4:38 pm to
I’m sure it can be loaded with some long range glide bombs or missiles that they can launch from outside the air defense umbrella of the Russians but it’s not going to give Ukraine air superiority or be able to perform much of a CAS function.
Posted by AU86
Member since Aug 2009
26257 posts
Posted on 8/12/23 at 4:42 pm to
Very good reply and I agree with you. It seems that we are on the same page in nearly all details.

But it seems to me that the west could have provided the necessary equipment earlier to deter Russian defense build up in the South and they did not do it.
Posted by WeeWee
Member since Aug 2012
45706 posts
Posted on 8/12/23 at 4:46 pm to
quote:

I don’t see the F-16 being much of a difference maker. It’s a 40+ year old design, it’s not stealth and it has almost no range.



The F-16 is capable of wild weasel missions. The last time I spoke with someone in the Ukrainian air force it had < 10 Mig29s capable of performing wild weasel missions. A handful of F16s would double their capacity to take our Russia's anti-air defenses over the front line. If Ukraine can take out or significantly reduce the air defenses over the front line then Ukraine can attack with air cover which would be a game changer for any offensive operation.
Posted by GeauxxxTigers23
TeamBunt General Manager
Member since Apr 2013
62514 posts
Posted on 8/12/23 at 4:48 pm to
quote:

The F-16 is capable of wild weasel missions. The last time I spoke with someone in the Ukrainian air force it had < 10 Mig29s capable of performing wild weasel missions. A handful of F16s would double their capacity to take our Russia's anti-air defenses over the front line. If Ukraine can take out or significantly reduce the air defenses over the front line then Ukraine can attack with air cover which would be a game changer for any offensive operation.


Have the Ukrainian MiGs been successful in their wild weasel missions? The S-300 and other air defenses are a lot more advanced than the air defenses that even the F-16 was designed to conduct SEAD against.
Posted by WeeWee
Member since Aug 2012
45706 posts
Posted on 8/12/23 at 4:51 pm to
quote:

But it seems to me that the west could have provided the necessary equipment earlier to deter Russian defense build up in the South and they did not do it.


I have been saying since March of 2022 that US and the west if giving Ukraine aid 6 months after it was needed. The west absolutely could have started looking in its stockpiles and finding Leopards to give to Ukraine and training troops in the summer of 2022 but it did not start doing it until early 2023.
Posted by OutsideObserver
Oceania.
Member since Dec 2022
784 posts
Posted on 8/12/23 at 4:56 pm to
quote:

There are more interesting details at both links, if you want to read more about how Russian central bankers prevented the economic collapse that the West expected (and that they themselves feared).


for the links, will peruse.
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
16112 posts
Posted on 8/12/23 at 5:02 pm to
Russia's central bank also reported statistics made up by the Kremlin.
Posted by WeeWee
Member since Aug 2012
45706 posts
Posted on 8/12/23 at 5:06 pm to
quote:

Have the Ukrainian MiGs been successful in their wild weasel missions?


Ukraine claims that they knocked out both S300s and S400s during their Kherson offensive last fall. However, it is not the S300 and S400 that is keeping Ukrainian helicopters and ground attack aircraft away from the frontline. The presence of wild weasel aircraft and long range drones have forced the S300 and S400 to be redeployed to Crimea and other places. According to my sauce(s) in the Ukrainian defense forces S300s and S400s are hardly ever fired at Ukrainian aircraft near the front lines. It is Russian medium and short range SAMs that are keeping the Ukrainian aircraft away the front lines. Those are much older systems and systems that wild weasels are perfectly capable of taking out. Ukraine just needs more wild weasel capable aircraft.
Posted by GeauxxxTigers23
TeamBunt General Manager
Member since Apr 2013
62514 posts
Posted on 8/12/23 at 5:13 pm to
It would seem to me that Ukraine would concentrate their limited wild weasel assets to concentrated sector of the line where they wanted to breakthrough and create hole for the helos and CAS aircraft to operate in to support the ground troops in a punch through the line.
Posted by GeauxxxTigers23
TeamBunt General Manager
Member since Apr 2013
62514 posts
Posted on 8/12/23 at 5:27 pm to
LINKLooks like it’ll be next summer before we F-16s over Ukraine.

quote:

While it had been hoped that the first Ukrainian pilots might be qualified to fly F-16 Viper fighters by early next year at the latest, that is now reportedly when they are expected to start training. The goal is now to have the first of Ukraine's aviators ready to take the stick of an F-16 sometime next summer.


quote:

The Washington Post first reported on the delay earlier today, citing two anonymous Ukrainian officials. Concerns over English language proficiency and a shortage of F-16 trainers in Europe are cited as the reasons for the schedule slip.


quote:

However, U.S. officials told the Post that Ukraine shares responsibility for the training delay, saying it had only recently provided a list of pilots ready to be trained in an inaugural cohort. Of 32 pilots given English proficiency exams, only eight were assessed as having adequate language skills, a U.S. official told the publication. The rest would require more instruction.
This post was edited on 8/12/23 at 5:28 pm
Posted by StormyMcMan
USA
Member since Oct 2016
4691 posts
Posted on 8/12/23 at 5:35 pm to
ISW Update


quote:

Key Takeaways:

Russian milbloggers acknowledged that Ukrainian forces are maintaining a presence on the east (left) bank of the Dnipro River in Kherson Oblast in contrast to previous Ukrainian raids, but ISW does not yet assess that these positions constitute a bridgehead.

Ukrainian forces continued counteroffensive operations on at least two sectors of the front on August 12 and reportedly made tactically significant advances along the administrative border between Zaporizhia and Donetsk oblasts.

Ukrainian forces reportedly launched two missile strikes targeting the Kerch Strait Bridge and a drone attack targeting occupied Crimea on August 12.

Russian forces conducted counteroffensive operations along the Kupyansk-Svatove-Kreminna line, near Bakhmut, along the Avdiivka-Donetsk City line, and in the Donetsk-Zaporizhia Oblast border area on August 12 and made no confirmed gains.

The Russian Ministry of Digital Development is preparing an amendment to the law on the conscription age that would increase the military service deferment age for IT specialists from 27 years to 30 years, likely in response to concerns about “brain drain” from Russia.

Russian authorities are reportedly adjusting propaganda language about the war aimed at Russian schoolchildren in Russia and occupied Ukraine.


Kerch bridge statement
quote:

Russian authorities claimed that Russian air defenses downed up to three Ukrainian ground attack missiles fired from S-200 systems targeting the Kerch Strait Bridge.[12] The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) also reported Ukrainian forces targeted occupied Crimea with 20 drones on the night of August 11­–12.[13] The Russian MoD claimed that Russian air defenses shot down 14 Ukrainian drones and downed another 6 drones with electronic warfare (EW) systems.[14] A Kremlin-affiliated Russian milblogger claimed that Russian air defense units of the 31st Air Defense Division shot down one of the Ukrainian missiles near Kerch in occupied Crimea.[15] Russian sources claimed that Russian authorities stopped traffic on the bridge for several hours following the Ukrainian missile and drone strikes, creating a traffic jam of almost 1,300 cars.[16] Russian sources claimed that Crimean occupation authorities are initiating tougher criminal liability for publishing photos and videos showing locations of military installations such as air defenses, likely in response to a photo posted today showing the location of a Russian air defense system in occupied Crimea.[17] Ukrainian strikes targeting Russian logistics in Crimea are a part of a deliberate interdiction campaign aimed at setting favorable conditions for larger counteroffensive operations. Previous Ukrainian strikes on bridges along Russian ground lines of communications (GLOCs) between occupied Crimea and occupied Kherson Oblast continue to disrupt Russian logistics.[18]
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42751 posts
Posted on 8/12/23 at 5:44 pm to

Excellent article. Of course it destroyed your original premise.
quote:

CBO estimated that $6.6 billion of the $113 billion would be spent in FY 2022 and another $37.7 billion in FY 2023. Furthermore, CBO estimated more than half of the approved funds would be spent by the end of FY 2024 and more than three-fourths by the end of FY 2026.


quote:

To date, the Biden Administration has sent Ukraine roughly $26 billion of direct military aid, mainly in the form of military hardware, training, and supplies.


quote:

Using PDA, the President can send military hardware out of the U.S. military’s own stockpiles directly to Ukraine. President Biden has utilized this authority 27 times since Russia invaded Ukraine to send nearly $15.6 billion worth of U.S. military hardware. Congress sets the limit on how much support the President can provide through PDA in a given fiscal year. In the second Ukraine funding bill passed in May, Congress set the limit for FY 2022 at $11 billion, and President Biden used approximately 84 percent of that authority to send $9.2 billion worth of military hardware through September


Thxs for sharing.
Posted by WeeWee
Member since Aug 2012
45706 posts
Posted on 8/12/23 at 5:49 pm to
quote:

It would seem to me that Ukraine would concentrate their limited wild weasel assets to concentrated sector of the line where they wanted to breakthrough and create hole for the helos and CAS aircraft to operate in to support the ground troops in a punch through the line.


They want to be able to do that. They just need more wild weasel capable aircraft. Per my sauce(s) they have a total of < 10 Mig29s capable of performing wild weasel missions. These are all 40+ year old Migs which means they need a lot of maintenance to stay in the air. Those Migs are also needed for other missions. Which means it might have only 2-4 Migs available for wild weasel missions on any given day. If Ukraine looses a Mig29 capable of performing a wild weasel mission even if the pilot survives and is rescued they don't have the capacity to replace it because only a few of their Migs have the proper hard points to attach HARMS. At least all the F16s have the ability to mount HARMs so if an F16s is lost on a wild weasel mission then it can be replaced by another F16s given to Ukraine.
Posted by LSUEnjoyer
Member since Aug 2023
63 posts
Posted on 8/12/23 at 5:52 pm to
(no message)
This post was edited on 8/13/23 at 2:33 pm
Posted by Hateradedrink
Member since May 2023
4156 posts
Posted on 8/12/23 at 5:55 pm to
Boy is this one ironic post.
Posted by WeeWee
Member since Aug 2012
45706 posts
Posted on 8/12/23 at 5:57 pm to
quote:

next summer before we F-16s over Ukraine


Which why I have been saying since March 2022 that we should have started training pilots on F16s. If we had started last year then they could have the pilots ready for the planes now.


For the record, my comment about F16s which started this discussion was just an example of how the USA and NATO's thought process has changed in regards to arming Ukraine. They are now realizing that half measures (i.e. telling Ukraine to attack when it was not ready and to attack without air cover) is not going to get the job done and Ukraine is going to need what it has been asking for since February of 2022 in order to win. I am not saying the F16s is the magic bullet that is going to win the war because there is no single magic bullet.
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42751 posts
Posted on 8/12/23 at 5:58 pm to
quote:

Boy is this one ironic post.


His link destroyed his post. We all can read. Well at least most of us.
Posted by northshorebamaman
Mackinac Island
Member since Jul 2009
38393 posts
Posted on 8/12/23 at 6:01 pm to
quote:

They want to be able to do that. They just need more wild weasel capable aircraft. Per my sauce(s) they have a total of < 10 Mig29s capable of performing wild weasel missions. These are all 40+ year old Migs which means they need a lot of maintenance to stay in the air. Those Migs are also needed for other missions. Which means it might have only 2-4 Migs available for wild weasel missions on any given day. If Ukraine looses a Mig29 capable of performing a wild weasel mission even if the pilot survives and is rescued they don't have the capacity to replace it because only a few of their Migs have the proper hard points to attach HARMS. At least all the F16s have the ability to mount HARMs so if an F16s is lost on a wild weasel mission then it can be replaced by another F16s given to Ukraine.
I swear to god, I'll pistol whip the next person that says wild weasel.

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