re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

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Does no one else find it concerning that so much top of the line Western equipment is barely making a difference in the war?

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How much of the Equipment we've sent is really "Top of the Line?" I think most of the Western tanks and APCs sent have been 1990s era variants or older. I guess the M777, HIMARS and most of the air defense systems are pretty current.

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Does no one else find it concerning that so much top of the line Western equipment is barely making a difference in the war?

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TBF much of the equipment is designed for mobile warfare. Ukraine is going to have to break through the Russian fortifications somehow before it can take full advantage. If and when Ukraine is able to make a breakthrough we'll see what the western equipment can do.

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Does no one else find it concerning that so much top of the line Western equipment is barely making a difference in the war?

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I agree some of the results thus far have been under whelming after the build up of expectation, though this was largely Western main stream media generated.

Equipment is only as good as the training and application of those using it. Most of the Western gear was new to, or jerry rigged to function with, the UAF's legacy equipment lowering it's effectiveness - especially in the short term as much training on it was fast tracked to get them in the field.

Throw in the lack of air superiority and I would argue that the Western equipment has made a significant difference in limiting Russia's progress when couched against the advantages Russia has in equipment and airpower, though Russia has displayed several issues in using these advantages to effect. I think this is especially evident in terms of AD.

Ukraine does appear to have made costly mistakes in the opening of the offensive but despite this they have still made some gains. Their game plan at this stage appears not to be on big ticket breakthroughs, but on the long range pressure being put on Russian logistics and the elimination of Russian artillery platforms, where again Western equipment is making a significant difference.

Whether this is due to intent, or adaption to not having all the tools to punch through the Russia defensive lines, remains to be seen. The addition of cluster munitions should make this easier in theory as it mitigates the lack of CAS. I expect to see the Western vehicles to show their strengths once they can push past the defensive lines as sitting still under fire stuck in mine fields curtails many of them.

Edit: Clarity

Really solid commentary Darth.

I freely admit, I expected the offensive to be more productive than it has been to date; however, now that I've seen what has occurred so far, I have the following thoughts:

1) Lack of air superiority is a much bigger factor than I anticipated, I thought they could compensate with drones.

2) I said in the thread a couple of months ago that the minefields would be the biggest challenge to the offensive, this appears to be true.

3) Ukraine gave Russia too much time to prepare its defense. I understand why they gave that time but it is proving to be a costly trade.

4) The hard punch hasn't come yet, so far we've seen Ukraine put pressure on Russia across the entire frontline, certain areas like Bakhmut have shown good forward movement, but others haven't moved so much. All of it together serves to soften Russia and give Ukraine intelligence on where to launch their hard attack.

5) I have said that Ukraine has the luxury of time and I still believe that; however, Ukraine MUST show some significant progress before winter or it risks softening support from the West.

6) I think it's time to give Ukraine what they need to win the war (long-range weapons and air power). Provide them with the tools to get the job done and end this.

7) Russia is a shite show, they are a frick up walking around looking for a place to happen.

8) This war has absolutely shown that stockpiles of munitions are woefully inadequate. In a full-blown war with China or Russia, the US would be hurting for ammo (across all weapon systems) within a fairly short period of time.

9) This war has also shown that the current manufacturing capacity for weapon systems like tanks, airplanes, etc...is not capable of sustaining a major conflict.

10) If Ukraine doesn't make any significant gains in 2023, I think we'll see a real push for a negotiated settlement.

11) If it comes to a negotiated settlement, I've been wondering if Ukraine would accept giving up some of its land in exchange for NATO membership...Thus securing them from future Russian ambitions.

Darth is the expert on the M1 so he can provide more color around this.

The tanks we're sending, which haven't arrived yet, are "export" versions of the Abrams. They do not have the same armor as the ones in service with the US Army. They also don't have other advanced systems that our Army uses.

The Bradleys and other APC's probably lack the advanced fire control systems currently fielded by the US army.

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I think this offensive was a mistake, at least at this time.

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Ok, let me know when the 2028 one happens

Exactly,

Wasn't it you who said that if the armor of an active Abrams was ever exposed, the tank was shut down and covered up until they could retrieve it?

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Wasn't it you who said that if the armor of an active Abrams was ever exposed, the tank was shut down and covered up until they could retrieve it?

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That’s how it was in the 80s & early 90s. The army treated chobham armor like it was the nuclear launch codes.

Frankly they stopped the Russian advance months ago long before the majority of western equipment arrived.

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What do you think our modern weapons with highly trained soldiers would do.

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Hard to tell. The Ukrainian army has been at war with Russia for nearly a decade. They have much more combat experience than any western military.