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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 5/22/23 at 1:57 pm to StormyMcMan
Posted on 5/22/23 at 1:57 pm to StormyMcMan
quote:
So to go full circle Japan should have been considered a vassal state to the US because they had to ask the US for permission to invade another country, didn't ask for permission and then had their "aid" pulled.
Technically, their 'aid' was pulled because the US felt they were negotiating in bad-faith. The possibility or reality of deteriorating relations with the US didn't stop the Japanese before, hence why suggesting a singular cause for Japanese attacks in the Pacific (which were coincidentally timed with a much broader attack on both British and American holdings in the Pacific) is silly.
0
Posted on 5/22/23 at 2:01 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
We forced Japan to attack us at Pearl Harbor because of our oil embargo.
Not the case. They burned heavy Sumatran crude in their ships as HFO, aka Bunker C. Didn't even have to refine it
Posted on 5/22/23 at 2:03 pm to Coeur du Tigre
Me. watch what happens south of Mariupol. It’s gonna be hard to resupply the frontlines.
Posted on 5/22/23 at 2:05 pm to doubleb
You see - you’re looking at it all wrong.
It all makes sense if you tell yourself that defense treaties are to blame, not the invading countries…
It all makes sense if you tell yourself that defense treaties are to blame, not the invading countries…
Posted on 5/22/23 at 2:07 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:Actually NATO has kept the peace in Europe for a long time.
Lessons not learned from WWI. Defense treaties lead widespread and comprehensive warfare.
Posted on 5/22/23 at 2:17 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
We’re contributing to the war in Ukraine because we want to be the big swinging dick in Europe and not the Europeans”
It doesnt have to be said.
Posted on 5/22/23 at 2:25 pm to Lakeboy7
Imagine waking up and thinking, I think I will vote with the reds on this one.
Posted on 5/22/23 at 2:27 pm to Chromdome35
quote:
So much for Zaluzhny being wounded
Good find, I wonder if mental gymnastics should be come an Olympic event, based on the comment thread Russia would be a good chance for a gold medal.
Posted on 5/22/23 at 2:28 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Right. It was just NATO.
Wow, nicely done missing the point.
quote:
Peace through strength in the modern age shouldnt require massive armies or bases abroad.
What?
Posted on 5/22/23 at 2:28 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
Imagine waking up and thinking, I think I will vote with the reds on this one.
Are those the BRICs super economies that have taken out the dollar?
Posted on 5/22/23 at 2:30 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:AHHAHAHAHAHAH
Lessons not learned from WWI. Defense treaties lead widespread and comprehensive warfare.
Posted on 5/22/23 at 2:34 pm to TigersnJeeps
quote:
Could not have more modern munitions have been stored in the structures, particularly if some of the old contents have already been destroyed/de-militarized? I don't know if they have but to assume that no change in the external view also means the contents are unchanged seems a bit of a stretch.
No change, no dirt disturbed, All berms intact without any gates or ramps to enter.
Posted on 5/22/23 at 2:34 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Peace through strength in the modern age shouldnt require massive armies or bases abroad.
Stop man, I'm actually starting to feel sorry for you now.
Posted on 5/22/23 at 2:40 pm to Lakeboy7
quote:
Stop man, I'm actually starting to feel sorry for you now.
Don't. I'm able to see outside the little corner youve locked yourself in.
Posted on 5/22/23 at 2:47 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
do you agree with the sentiment that the US may have an interest in (and motivation) of a prolonged conflict?
I agree that seems to be reality, though I’m not certain I agree with it in policy. I’m also very cognizant I am not privy to near enough intel, nor do I have the expertise to just outright say it’s wrong, from the American perspective.
I think if there’s a means to end the war with limited collateral damage whereby Ukraine has been allowed to defend themselves from historical aggression that it should be followed. Ukrainians are the ones dying so a purposeful prolonging of the war seems wrong for them. Alternative thought is this is also allowing Russia to blow its wad it can’t hope to replace in any short timeframe which also makes Ukraine safer postwar as well as the region and our interests.
I personally think Belgorod is fair game. Russia started it. FAFO.
It’s also not like us and Russia haven’t directly supplied the others nemesis multiple times to fight each other, provided intelligence, money, weapons, etc. Supplying them with nukes is one thing. 30, 40, 50 year old fighter jets when they claim to have 5th Gen fighters and by hypersonic missiles that no one can stop and they could destroy us and Europe if they want? They can GFT as far as I’m concerned. If they’re worried about those planes that’s an internal admission of defeat.
To be clear, I do not think we should have American troops on the ground or in the air in the war. But, no I don’t really think it is actually this great WWIII instigating deal that we approve old platform F16 transfers to Ukraine.
Posted on 5/22/23 at 3:02 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
But the US and Russia have been jockeying over Ukraine for 30 years. Its just that we're too much of a pussy to use our own dead soldiers.
Posted on 5/22/23 at 3:15 pm to Lakeboy7
quote:
It doesnt have to be said.
Whether it has to be said or not is irrelevant. Answer this question….Why isn’t it said?
Posted on 5/22/23 at 3:16 pm to doubleb
quote:
Japan had eyes on the West Dutch Indes and to secure that they would have had to go through us.
But that was only because we convinced the English and Dutch to join our embargo. The Japanese would have had no need to invade the Dutch Indies if the allies had still been trading them the oil, rubber, and other resources they needed. What you detailed was that Japan’s aggressive actions resulted in sanctions that threatened the Japanese war effort, leading to Japan invading territories from which they could extract said resources.
Would Japan have needed to attack the United States or the colonies of Great Britain and The Netherlands had they not been actively engaged in an embargo as a punitive action to curb Japanese aggression in China?
We all know the Western allies had great investments in China and were supporting the Kuamatang against Mao (backed by the Soviets) and the Japanese.
However, had the allies remained neutral and continued trading with Japan, would Japan still have attacked those colonies in order to ensure supplies of those resources? I’m not sure they wouldn’t have, but they would not have NEEDED to do so.
The Japanese were absolutely the aggressors, and the way they treated the Chinese was absolutely barbaric. However, embargoes are weapons of war. An embargo is simply a softer blockade.
Posted on 5/22/23 at 3:26 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
What are examples of goals applicable to the 21st century?
I’d prefer we spend our treasure on countering China in Pacific, Africa and South America(among other things). The war in Ukraine isn’t even important. It’s a fricking sideshow that should be dealt with second tier sideshow countries like Western Europe.
Europe has plenty enough money to fight this war on their own without us but they refuse because frankly they’re a bunch of pussies. We’ve paid for the defense of that continent for long enough. It’s not like they’re going to stop trading with us or gain influence over us in other parts of the world if we don’t guarantee their defense so the whole buying influence with weapons to retain our hegemony line is just bullshite.
This post was edited on 5/22/23 at 3:30 pm
Posted on 5/22/23 at 3:27 pm to kingbob
quote:
But that was only because we convinced the English and Dutch to join our embargo. The Japanese would have had no need to invade the Dutch Indies if the allies had still been trading them the oil, rubber, and other resources they needed. What you detailed was that Japan’s aggressive actions resulted in sanctions that threatened the Japanese war effort, leading to Japan invading territories from which they could extract said resources.
So you admit the Japanese were warlike and aggressive; yet if we and the other western nations would have left them alone they would not have attacked anyone but China?
That’s like the strategy the other European countries used on Germany. They let them be as they took Austria and Czechoslovakia and didn’t act until he took Poland.
We will never know, but I think Japan like Hitler was not going to turn nice after they finished China off.
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