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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 3/8/23 at 8:18 am to
Posted by GeauxxxTigers23
TeamBunt General Manager
Member since Apr 2013
62514 posts
Posted on 3/8/23 at 8:18 am to
quote:

Do you honestly believe Putin/Russian leadership would’ve launched this war if they knew it would’ve turned into this?


If they had taken Kyiv this war would very likely be over. And they were very close to pulling it off but allowed themselves to get bogged down and didn’t commit enough air support nor take out Ukraine’s command and control apparatus.
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42751 posts
Posted on 3/8/23 at 8:27 am to
quote:

Do you honestly believe Putin/Russian leadership would’ve launched this war if they knew it would’ve turned into this?


No

They thought it would be similar to how they took Crimea. A quick capture of Kiev, advanced in the Donbas, the capture of Kherson and the West would do nothing as a regular and Ukraine would capitulate.

They made a serious miscalculation and now they have no simple, easy solution. If it were over today, it would be a severe setback.
Posted by soccerfüt
Location: A Series of Tubes
Member since May 2013
75250 posts
Posted on 3/8/23 at 8:46 am to
quote:

If they had taken Kyiv this war would very likely be over. And they were very close to pulling it off but allowed themselves to get bogged down and didn’t commit enough air support nor take out Ukraine’s command and control apparatus.
This

Russia has fought a limited war when they’d (in retrospect) have probably been better served to have eliminated the military and political leaders, and in doing so been able to take physical control of Ukraine and then dealt with the horrific PR from those war crimes. Instead we now have had a year+ of war and vastly more war crimes and Russia is an international pariah all the same.

I’m literally playing devil’s advocate here, I hope Putin goes away soon.
Posted by REG861
Ocelot, Iowa
Member since Oct 2011
38226 posts
Posted on 3/8/23 at 8:47 am to
quote:


My guy, it was the Russian Military that was selling the world as a reformed, modern military. They believed their own hype after their “successes” in Syria and their 2014 invasion of Ukraine. Believing their own bull shite very likely lead to this war.

Do you honestly believe Putin/Russian leadership would’ve launched this war if they knew it would’ve turned into this?




I'll save you the trouble, he's going to claim it was a feint and russia's real goal was to get bogged down in the Donbas indefinitely and play 'the numbers game," ie, bleed out tens of thousands of troops to secure one horse towns every six months.
This post was edited on 3/8/23 at 8:49 am
Posted by DabosDynasty
Member since Apr 2017
5180 posts
Posted on 3/8/23 at 8:58 am to
quote:

On Nord Stream, the British paper The Times has a very interesting story:


Interesting. Hard to really know the source and confirmed methodology, but one thing seems certain is that they’ve successfully muddied the waters enough from an intelligence perspective.
Posted by GeauxxxTigers23
TeamBunt General Manager
Member since Apr 2013
62514 posts
Posted on 3/8/23 at 9:00 am to
quote:

Interesting. Hard to really know the source and confirmed methodology, but one thing seems certain is that they’ve successfully muddied the waters enough from an intelligence perspective.


Sounds to me like they’re trying to place the blame on some random guy in Ukraine.

That way no one State has to officially mad and any other State. Whether it be Germany, the United States or Ukraine.
Posted by REG861
Ocelot, Iowa
Member since Oct 2011
38226 posts
Posted on 3/8/23 at 9:08 am to
quote:

teresting. Hard to really know the source and confirmed methodology, but one thing seems certain is that they’ve successfully muddied the waters enough from an intelligence perspective.


Would be a good idea. Blame it in some unknown Ukrainian saboteur.

Speaking of which, does anyone else find it odd that there hasn’t been much talk about Darya Dugina after she was assassinated by “some random Ukrainian saboteur?”

Where is the big show trial? Why haven’t the culprits been dragged int front of a firing squad yet? Surely the evidence is overwhelming.
Posted by IAmNERD
Member since May 2017
24346 posts
Posted on 3/8/23 at 9:12 am to
quote:

the influential figure suspected to have bankrolled such a sophisticated operation from his own pocket — involving a yacht, elite divers, forged passports and the procurement of shaped explosive charges only available to the gas and oil industry with a specific licence and at great cost.

They're making this guy sound like he is a Hollywood antagonist in a movie franchise like Mission Impossible or something.

A literal Bond villain.
Posted by DabosDynasty
Member since Apr 2017
5180 posts
Posted on 3/8/23 at 9:24 am to




Edited to remove my own directional confusion.
This post was edited on 3/8/23 at 9:36 am
Posted by GeauxxxTigers23
TeamBunt General Manager
Member since Apr 2013
62514 posts
Posted on 3/8/23 at 9:27 am to
How are those tweets conflicting?

Every major outlet is saying Ukraine has completely retreated from the East side of the river.
Posted by DabosDynasty
Member since Apr 2017
5180 posts
Posted on 3/8/23 at 9:32 am to
quote:

Iran has secretly supplied large quantities of bullets, rockets and mortar shells to Russia for the war in Ukraine and plans to send more, a security source has told Sky News.

The source claimed that two Russian-flagged cargo ships departed an Iranian port in January bound for Russia via the Caspian Sea, carrying approximately 100 million bullets and around 300,000 shells.


quote:

Ammunition for rocket launchers, mortars and machine guns was allegedly included in the shipments.

The source said Moscow paid for the ammunition in cash.

It was not possible to independently verify the volume of the alleged military assistance. One expert cautioned that the amount sounded high.


quote:

The source said one of the ships is thought to have departed Iran on around 10 January and the other on around 12 January.

Between them, the two vessels were thought to be carrying about 200 shipping containers filled with weaponry, according to the source.

The source said they were confident in their assessment of the amount of ammunition that was being transported.

"Two hundred containers on two ships are capable of carrying this amount of munitions," the source added.


quote:

The source listed the alleged cargo as comprising approximately 100 million bullets of varying sizes - 5.56mm, 7.62mm, 9mm, 12.7mm and 14.5mm - to be used in weapons such pistols, assault rifles and machine guns.

The ships were also carrying a range of other ammunition, the source said, including approximately 300,000 shells, such as 40mm grenades for grenade launchers, 107mm anti-tank rockets, and mortar shells of different sizes - 60mm, 81mm and 120mm - as well as artillery rockets (130mm, 122mm and 152mm) and armour shells (115mm and 125mm).

In addition, the source said there were close to 10,000 flak jackets and helmets on board.

"Russia pays for the ammunition in cash and by doing so, bypasses the western sanctions on it, ignoring the sanctions on Iran," the source added.


Bolded section to make clear it’s not independently confirmed FWIW.

SKY News
Posted by DabosDynasty
Member since Apr 2017
5180 posts
Posted on 3/8/23 at 9:35 am to
quote:

How are those tweets conflicting?

Every major outlet is saying Ukraine has completely retreated from the East side of the river.


Confused reporting with eastern flank with western flank. Editing my comment because I think it’s just me confusing the two
Posted by DabosDynasty
Member since Apr 2017
5180 posts
Posted on 3/8/23 at 10:16 am to


This doesn’t seem to make sense. Nordic govt claims to have been impressed by intelligence details from a briefing a week after the explosions, but Germany waited until January to raid the boat reportedly used?
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
21027 posts
Posted on 3/8/23 at 10:30 am to
quote:

Would be a good idea. Blame it in some unknown Ukrainian saboteur.



But he's apparently not unknown. It seems that every NATO intelligence circle knows exactly who he is.

The thing that you have to keep in mind is that, until recently, much in Ukraine was run by powerful oligarchs, just as it was in Russia for a while (until Putin took more complete control). One oligarch would bribe one government official for a contract, another would undermine a rival a different way. The system had a real resemblance to the mafia.

For example, let's look at the Wikipedia of Rinat Akhmetov, Ukraine's richest man (at least before the war), whom I have already seen speculated as the individual involved. He was a member of the Ukrainian parliament for the Party of Regions, which was the pro-Russian party overthrown in the 2014 Maidan uprising
-- definitely not an ally of Zelensky in any way. In fact, in November of 2021, just three months before Russia's invasion, Zelensky accused Akhmetov of plotting a coup.

quote:

In his documentary book Donetsk Mafia: Anthology,[22] Ukrainian author Serhiy Kuzin claims Akhmetov held the role of a 'mafia thug' in his early years.[
quote:

In the 1980s, Akhmetov acted as an assistant to Akhat Bragin, whom law enforcement agencies regarded as a powerful crime boss,[18] allegedly in the illegal cloth trading business.[24] Andrew Wilson, a scholar specializing in Ukrainian politics, categorized Akhmetov as an alleged former 'enforcer' and 'leader' of "[Akhat] Bragin's 'Tatar' clan", responsible for the use of "mafia methods to push aside the 'red directors' of the Industrial Union of Donbas (ISD)".[26] By the early 1990s, Akhmetov began acquiring property in Donetsk allegedly by means of extortion with the assistance of Volodymyr Malyshev, Lieutenant-General of The Head of Ministry of Internal Affairs Department in Donetsk Oblast.[24]
quote:

In October 1995, Bragin, president of Shakhtar Donetsk football club, was killed in a mysterious bombing along with six of his bodyguards at the team's stadium during a match.[28] Some rumours associate Akhmetov with the death of Bragin.[26] Following the assassinations, Akhmetov is said to have "inherited a vast financial empire from Bragin"
quote:

In September 1999, an official Ukrainian Ministry of Internal Affairs report titled the "Overview of the Most Dangerous Organized Crime Structures in Ukraine" identified Akhmetov as a leader of an organized crime syndicate. The report tied the group to money laundering, financial fraud, and the control of numerous large and fictitious companies.
quote:

In a U.S. diplomatic cable dated 3 February 2006, then U.S. Ambassador John Herbst referred to Akhmetov's Party of Regions as "long a haven for Donetsk-based mobsters and oligarchs" and called Akhmetov the "godfather" of the Donetsk clan.
quote:

Akhmetov founded System Capital Management Group (JSC "SCM") in 2000. SCM is the largest diversified financial and industrial group in Ukraine (for example, in 2013, the share of SCM in Ukraine's GDP was 3.9%[42]), which is also represented in 7 countries in Europe and North America. The structure of SCM Group includes more than 500 companies employing about 200 thousand people.[43][44]

SCM's main areas of interest and activities are metallurgy and coal mining, power generation, telecommunications, and banking. In various periods, Akhmetov controlled from 90% to 100% of the shares of SCM.[45][46] He has been its sole proprietor since 2009.[47]


Losing the famous Azovstal plant in Mariupol is only one of the financial reverses that Akhmetov has suffered since the start of the war.

quote:

In H1 2022, SCM paid about €1.2 billion in taxes to the national budget, becoming the country’s biggest private taxpayer in the wartime.[51]

Mariupol-based Azovstal and Illich Iron and Steel Works were the backbone of Akhmetov's steel business. Other steel companies, Zaporizhstal and Kametstal, had to curtail production significantly.[52]

Akhmetov's DTEK has lost 70% of renewables facilities and 30% of thermal power generation plants.


In the war, Akhmetov has been steadfast that he supports Ukraine. He even sold his TV station, saying that he no longer wanted to be considered an oligarch.

quote:

Financial Times reports that Rinat Akhmetov has allocated €100 million in humanitarian aid and support for the Ukrainian military during the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine.[121]

quote:

As a result of the invasion, Akhmetov's fortune dropped from nearly $14 billion to less than $6 billion in just two weeks, and may likely be much less, according to Forbes.

quote:

The Saving Lives initiative established by Metinvest, in concert with the Rinat Akhmetov Foundation, was meant to prevent a food crisis in Ukraine in the wartime. Contributions from the international partners and benefactors has helped provide 374,130 people with many kinds of assistance.[128] It hands over food packages, hygiene kits, and medicines to Dnipropetrovsk, Zaporizhia, Donetsk, Kyrovohrad, Kherson, and Odessa regions, taking care of shelters, and supporting local administrations.

quote:

In January 2023, Akhmetov announced the launch of the Heart of Azovstal project to help Mariupol defenders and the families of fallen soldiers. He donated $25 million to finance the project.[138]
quote:

Shakhtar Donetsk, the football club sponsored by Akhmetov, opened this year Shelter Center at the Arena Lviv, since then it has received more than 2 thousand internal migrants from different regions of Ukraine. As of the end of August, there were 6,000 temporary accommodation places arranged by Metinvest at its social facilities. The shelter residents receive hot meals, food and hygienic kits. The company has arranged 850 accommodation places in six Dnipropetrovsk and Kyrovohrad communities.[140][141]
quote:

After the power plants in Kharkiv and Dnipropetrovsk oblasts were hit by Russian missile strikes, causing widespread blackouts in five regions of Ukraine, Rinat Akhmetov and DTEK Group decided to start helping restore electricity supply all over Ukraine, even in the areas not covered by DTEK power grid.[148]

Since the outbreak of the war, Akhmetov's DTEK has been supplying free electricity worth UAH 350 million to medical and military facilities in Kyiv, Dnipropetrovsk, and Donetsk oblasts
quote:

In June 2022, Akhmetov filed a lawsuit against the Russian Federation with the European Court of Human Rights for damages caused to his assets by Russia's military aggression against Ukraine, saying "this lawsuit is one of the first international legal steps against Russia to stop their ongoing crimes, destruction of the Ukrainian economy and the plundering of Ukrainian assets".[159][3] It was reported that Akhmetov was suing for between $17 billion and $20 billion of losses.[160]

Akhmetov has paid UAH 1.77 billion in taxes to budgets of all levels since the beginning of 2022, according to Interfax-Ukraine



So, here's a guy who used to be pro-Russia, has experience in killing people and mafia-style operations, was accused by Zelensky of plotting a coup only 16 months ago, and who has now had much of his fortune destroyed by the same Russia that he spent so many years supporting. Oh, and perhaps coincidentally, he owns energy companies that would likely lose money if Nord Stream 2 has been activated.



And he's not the only such guy who could've done this. But I'd make him the betting favorite.
Posted by notiger1997
Metairie
Member since May 2009
61743 posts
Posted on 3/8/23 at 10:34 am to
quote:

The source claimed that two Russian-flagged cargo ships departed an Iranian port in January bound for Russia via the Caspian Sea, carrying approximately 100 million bullets and around 300,000 shells.


Someone should have blown these ships up if they knew it was carrying this kind of cargo.
This post was edited on 3/8/23 at 10:35 am
Posted by DabosDynasty
Member since Apr 2017
5180 posts
Posted on 3/8/23 at 10:43 am to
quote:

GOP_Tiger


TFYS

This is why people come to this thread. That’s next level digging.
Posted by DabosDynasty
Member since Apr 2017
5180 posts
Posted on 3/8/23 at 10:46 am to
quote:

Someone should have blown these ships up if they knew it was carrying this kind of cargo.


Blowing up Russian chartered cargo ships leaving Iran is how we DO end up with American troops involved. I don’t think anyone who can make this decision finds the reported cargo worthy of such a risk and rightfully so IMO.
Posted by IAmNERD
Member since May 2017
24346 posts
Posted on 3/8/23 at 10:48 am to
quote:

Rinat Akhmetov, Ukraine's richest man

I remember him (at least I'm pretty positive this is the same guy) when he got in some hot water in the court of public opinion when he bought some villa on the French Riviera that was the most expensive property on the market in the world at the time. The controversy arose because the villa was built by Belgium's King Leopold II back when he was subjugating the people of the Congo. Supposedly thousands of slaves and servants died on the property and it's said that a genocide took place there.
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
21027 posts
Posted on 3/8/23 at 10:49 am to
quote:

This is why people come to this thread. That’s next level digging.



I don't know about that -- I saw a random tweet and then spent five minutes on Wikipedia.

But thank you.
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
21027 posts
Posted on 3/8/23 at 11:09 am to
LINK

quote:

The Bundeswehr announced the transfer to Ukraine of two more Gepard installations (total of 36), two vehicles for border guards, and also announced the transfer of 13 more armored "Biber" bridge-builders to the existing 7.


More bridge layers for Ukraine, after the US just gave some last week. Gee, I wonder why Ukraine wants all of those.
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