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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 2/2/23 at 7:39 am to
Posted by DabosDynasty
Member since Apr 2017
5180 posts
Posted on 2/2/23 at 7:39 am to
quote:

Stormy McMan


That series of tweets & updates seems clear things are about to really heat up, whether successful or not for the Russians, a big move seems to be coming.

I came to post this and after see your post it seems more appropriate to post in my response to your post than stand alone:



Just sharing because it was said and I find it interesting in the context of Stormys post in particular.
Posted by DabosDynasty
Member since Apr 2017
5180 posts
Posted on 2/2/23 at 7:47 am to
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
20971 posts
Posted on 2/2/23 at 7:50 am to
I mean, Serbia has been a Russian ally since Operation Deliberate Force. Serbia was a partner to genocide in Bosnia, which is why it mostly stands in accord with Russia's genocide in Ukraine. I know that Serbian leaders have made a couple of mild statements in favor of Ukraine, but the country as a whole supports Russia.
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
20971 posts
Posted on 2/2/23 at 7:58 am to
DabosDynasty, @warmonitors is a Russian propaganda account, and that tweet is inaccurate. It takes out of context a quote from a new article in the British paper The Times.

You can read the whole article here: LINK

The relevant quote is:
quote:

August Hanning, a former director of Germany’s foreign intelligence service, argued late last year, however, that several other countries besides Russia could conceivably have had an interest in disabling the pipelines. He named the United States, Ukraine, Poland and Britain. “They all have their reasons,” he said.


So, not "German investigators" at all, but rather, simple speculation from a former official who has no knowledge of the investigation but is engaging in rank speculation -- and did so over a month ago.
This post was edited on 2/2/23 at 7:59 am
Posted by Burhead
Member since Dec 2014
2100 posts
Posted on 2/2/23 at 8:03 am to
quote:

@Faytuks Russia's foreign minister says that Moldova could be the new "anti-russian project" after Ukraine - Reuters

Russia's foreign minister Lavrov also says that there is "no doubt that the west also wants to turn Georgia into the next Russian foe"

Lavrov says that Moldova could be the "next Ukraine", adding that Moldova's president was "undemocratically elected & she is holding a Romanian passport, and is eager to join NATO & unite with Romania"


Russia no doubt still hasn't given up the idea of establishing a land bridge to Transistria. Unless Putin loses he'll just keep pushing and pushing until eventually it turns into a wider confrontation. I firmly believe the reason he approved the invasion into Ukraine is the West didn't do anything when he went into Chechnya, Georgia in 2008, or really lifted a finger in 2014 when Crimea and the DNR/LNR projects started. Up until this point he's only been on a winning streak.
Posted by DabosDynasty
Member since Apr 2017
5180 posts
Posted on 2/2/23 at 8:04 am to
quote:

DabosDynasty, @warmonitors is a Russian propaganda account, and that tweet is inaccurate. It takes out of context a quote from a new article in the British paper The Times.


Didn’t know that. Thank you for the context.
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42619 posts
Posted on 2/2/23 at 8:13 am to
quote:

However as I mentioned directly after the quoted point I completely agree Russia is at fault for not evolving past the mentality where they see the need for extensive land holdings as a core means of security which has been a significant compulsion behind their actions for at least the past 200 years.


I think the Ukraine land grab in 2014 which was pulled off with little consequences led to the increase in hostilities last year. Putin thought it would be over in a few weeks, and he’d gain more territory and resources.

Blaming Nazis, NATO, Bio Labs, etc. is pure propaganda.
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42619 posts
Posted on 2/2/23 at 8:23 am to
quote:

Up until this point he's only been on a winning streak.


Another dictator did the same in Europe in the 30s. They waited too late to oppose him. And remember, initially the Russians were on their side.
Posted by Burhead
Member since Dec 2014
2100 posts
Posted on 2/2/23 at 8:31 am to
quote:

Another dictator did the same in Europe in the 30s. They waited too late to oppose him. And remember, initially the Russians were on their side.


Which is why I'd rather try and stop Russia in Ukraine than one day see them try and do something in the Baltic's or Poland where we would be treaty obligated to get involved. Here we don't have to spill American blood to bloody the Russians.
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
20971 posts
Posted on 2/2/23 at 8:36 am to
The CEO of General Atomics has lost patience with the Biden administration's refusal to send its Gray Eagle or Reaper drones to Ukraine:

This post was edited on 2/2/23 at 8:38 am
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
73617 posts
Posted on 2/2/23 at 8:46 am to
quote:

I think the Ukraine land grab in 2014 which was pulled off with little consequences led to the increase in hostilities last year.


It’s never mentioned, but the weakness Obama showed in 2014 lead to this war being fought now. I’m not saying Obama should have took us to war. But he totally hung Ukraine out to dry and offered no help other than a few pallets of old army blankets. Putin took note of that. Then when Putin saw the weakness in Washington, both in the Pentagon & White House, during the withdrawal from Afghanistan, he realized his time had come.

Russia didn’t go to war last February because of any “immediate threat” from Ukraine. Russia went to war last February because they saw it was the best time, in their opinion, to do so. And the deciding factor was perceived weakness in the West.

It’s the same reason Hitler invade Austria, Czechoslovakia, and Poland. He did it because he thought he could without having to worry about the West.

The lesson to take from this is that it’s only when the West, particularly the US, appears weak, that major land wars in Europe break out.

Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
This post was edited on 2/2/23 at 8:47 am
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
20971 posts
Posted on 2/2/23 at 9:19 am to
It wasn't even just in Ukraine. Russia and Assad won in Syria after Obama said that chemical weapons were a red line, and then Assad used them and we did nothing.

Not to mention the weakness that Obama showed in letting ISIS take Mosul and parade around captured US-made military equipment. That caused a big part of Iraq's problems today: the militias controlled directly from Tehran.

It's almost as if there are parallels to today.
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
73617 posts
Posted on 2/2/23 at 9:22 am to
Yep. I’m not saying the IS has to be “world cop”. But neither can we appear weak and feckless on the world stage.
Posted by klrstix
Shreveport, LA
Member since Oct 2006
3571 posts
Posted on 2/2/23 at 9:47 am to
quote:

Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.



I kinda think this statement should add "those who do not remember or attempt to alter the past..."

Posted by nitwit
Member since Oct 2007
13091 posts
Posted on 2/2/23 at 9:57 am to
Obama should have clearly done more when Crimea was invaded. The failure to do so, especially in retrospect, is possibly Obama's biggest failure as president.
BUT, we need to be honest in our historic analysis of this decision. Part of the reason Obama was so hesitant to act or threaten to act was that the shock and awe intervention in Iraq, justified by claims of mushroom cloud- generating WMDs had proven to be a farce. This action destabilized the entire Middle East (still does) and cost the US a whole lot of credibility with respect to foreign military interventions. So soon after Iraq, Obama could not have mustered NATO or allied coalition support to credibly restrain Putin in Crimea.
Posted by StormyMcMan
USA
Member since Oct 2016
4669 posts
Posted on 2/2/23 at 9:58 am to
quote:

could have been


Well no shite they obviously could have. The question is did they, Russia, or someone other actor do it, not could they do it. That's weak sauce breaking news
Posted by TBoy
Kalamazoo
Member since Dec 2007
28571 posts
Posted on 2/2/23 at 10:14 am to
quote:

It’s never mentioned, but the weakness Obama showed in 2014 lead to this war being fought now. I’m not saying Obama should have took us to war. But he totally hung Ukraine out to dry and offered no help other than a few pallets of old army blankets. Putin took note of that.

Partly true. When Russia invaded and conquered Crimea in 2014 there weren't many options available. Ukraine's military was not trained up to resist and Obama decided that it wasn't worth the deployment of American troops. Both of those conclusions were correct.

But in the intervening years, the US and its allies have assisted in the training and modernization of the Ukrainian military to be a more effective resistance force for when Russia would come back. The conclusion that Russia would likely come for more territory was also correct.

So while we didn't jump in in 2014, that was likely the correct conclusion at the time and under the circumstances. The policy of assistance since that time has also been shown to have been effective.
Posted by LeClerc
USVI
Member since Oct 2012
2841 posts
Posted on 2/2/23 at 10:29 am to
Everyone is so quick to blame Obama for all of this but never say a word about Bush's lack of action when Russia invaded Chechnya and Georgia. Yes Obama should have done more, the world should have done more, especially the Brits an Germans but the Brits were getting rich washing the oligarchs laundry and Germany, well they wanted cheap gas.

It is rarely one thing that leads to this sort of action, it is, rather, a chain of events. Remember When W said. "I looked the man in the eye. I found him to be very straightforward and trustworthy. We had a very good dialogue. I was able to get a sense of his soul; a man deeply committed to his country and the best interests of his country."


Oh and BTW, I think it was the US that blew the pipelines. Someone needed to force the Germans' hand.
Posted by AGGIES
Member since Jul 2021
12319 posts
Posted on 2/2/23 at 10:34 am to
quote:

The lesson to take from this is that it’s only when the West, particularly the US, appears weak, that major land wars in Europe break out. Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.


It has definitely been mentioned that the perceived weakness of the Obama admin. regarding Putin’s land grab of Crimea in 2014 seemed to embolden Putin towards future military actions, such as this war.

And I agree. Which was all the more reason for the Biden admin. to sound the alarm early and share the intelligence of Russia’s plans at the UN before Putin could set the narrative.

And Putin’s under estimating Ukraine and the West’s resolve is a big reason why his advance has ground down to a crawl.
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
20971 posts
Posted on 2/2/23 at 11:53 am to
Just in case there was any confusion, this should clear it up:


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