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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 10/14/22 at 8:56 am to AU86
Posted on 10/14/22 at 8:56 am to AU86
quote:
Why weren't you hearing that back in June or July?
Because the longer the war goes on the more desperate Russia may become. That is the concern and I think anyone not obtuse can rationalize how that is a legit worry.
0
Posted on 10/14/22 at 8:56 am to stout
quote:
I dont save posts and am not going to go searching all over here and the PT for them but there were people here in full support of it. I know because I made some threads about it and supportes came in to defend Zelensky
I haven't seen any in this thread at all. I need some more evidence.
quote:
I was being a bit facetious but do you think if we nuked any part of Russia that they would not be ripe for takeover?
You generally don't want to nuke an area where you want to take over. That complicates the 'taking over' aspect significantly.
quote:
If they are as weak as you guys suggest, and Putin has lost a lot of support as you guys suggest when you all have called for regime change, then wouldn't that make at least a large part of the country prime and open to takeover and change?
Because it is a large country that is made up of federal republics, there are governmental structures that can do the basic aspects of governance in the event of a regime change. No part of the country would really be prime for a takeover. There might be other countries which could make claims to certain portions of those republics, but that doesn't mean any country either in Europe or in Asia could waltz in and just take over. Offensive operations are extremely costly, firstly, but more importantly, who would do something like this? Invading is far less profitable than the American-led model, which is just providing capital investment. Rebuilding failed states has providing an amazing return on investment, especially as even nominally socialist countries adopt market principles. There is no real reason for invading when much more money can be made through investments.
Posted on 10/14/22 at 8:57 am to stout
quote:
I think NATO being on his border plays a role in the decision. Not saying it is 100 percent the reason but no country would want a combined foreign military power that close to their borders.
Google Norway, Lithuania, Estonia, and Poland.
Posted on 10/14/22 at 8:57 am to stout
quote:I guess it depends on what you mean by “bring down Russia” but in a lot of ways it already has. How could anyone not see this?
Defending Ukraine is not going to bring down Russia. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Posted on 10/14/22 at 8:57 am to stout
quote:
Defending Ukraine is not going to bring down Russia. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Russia is bringing themselves down. Putin bit off more than he could chew. Thats s what happened.
Hitler did the same thing when he attacked Russia. Japan when they attacked us. They all miscalculated and took on an enemy they could not defeat.
This post was edited on 10/14/22 at 9:56 am
Posted on 10/14/22 at 9:01 am to stout
quote:
I think NATO being on his border plays a role in the decision. Not saying it is 100 percent the reason but no country would want a combined foreign military power that close to their borders.
Except, you know, Russia, for going on 20 years.
Posted on 10/14/22 at 9:02 am to stout
quote:
Yes they did. People were begging Musk to send Starlink to Ukraine and he obliged. I remember him responding on Twitter about it.
Sorry but the clueless didn't know that Musk had been negotiating with Ukraine on Starlink use for MONTHS before Feb 24th. So you ideas are now proven to be wrong
Posted on 10/14/22 at 9:03 am to WDE24
quote:
I guess it depends on what you mean by “bring down Russia” but in a lot of ways it already has
Is Europe still getting gas from Russia?
Yes. Oh OK.
It's like I said concerning China. Stop buying shite from them if you want to hurt them.
This war is not going to slow them down as much as you guys think as long as countries are funding them by buying their oil.
OPEC cutting production by 2 million barrels is only going to prolong countries buying from Russia.
Posted on 10/14/22 at 9:04 am to stout
quote:
I think NATO being on his border plays a role in the decision. Not saying it is 100 percent the reason but no country would want a combined foreign military power that close to their borders.
Imagine if China and Russia asked Mexico to join their united defense alliance. Do you think America would sit back and let it happen?
The rest of the stuff people cite is silly. I agree with you there.
but he already had nato on his border for years. its way down the list of reason.
wtf is up for the low iq guys falling for Q bullshite like biolabs lol?
that is worse than falling for ghost of kiev shite
Posted on 10/14/22 at 9:04 am to CitizenK
quote:
Sorry but the clueless didn't know that Musk had been negotiating with Ukraine on Starlink use for MONTHS before Feb 24th. So you ideas are now proven to be wrong
What does that have to do with the fact that once the war started they begged for it and he then sent it for free?
Posted on 10/14/22 at 9:06 am to stout
quote:
I think only half of the money is for equipment last I read. Still billions unaccounted for both in cash and stolen weapons that have come up for sale on the black market.
Besides, the real money grift AKA laundering is in the rebuilding. There will be billions and billions lost when that happens.
Only in Kremlin propaganda voice but nutter news media and politards believe this
Posted on 10/14/22 at 9:07 am to lsu777
quote:
wtf is up for the low iq guys falling for Q bullshite like biolabs lol?
that is worse than falling for ghost of kiev shite
Come on, dude. You are being obtuse too. Do you truly think it wasn't at all a factor?
And frick you for equating me to the Q guys. You can frick right off with that bullshite. I am not grouping you in with the Zelensky cucks like GOP Tiger or citizenk so frick you for taking the low-hanging fruit and grouping me in with those Q idiots.
Posted on 10/14/22 at 9:07 am to stout
quote:
What does that have to do with the fact that once the war started they begged for it and he then sent it for free?
Stout, that's just not true. I posted an article about 2 pages back. Find it and educate yourself.
Posted on 10/14/22 at 9:07 am to stout
quote:
Correct. At least consider the entire history.
I'm definitely considering their entire history. The Russian elite are driving this, not just Putin himself, because they see control of West Asia as paramount to control of the world. It is an old theory of geopolitics call The Heartland Theory, which the Russians took to heart. For them, the major security concern is limiting the amount of frontier they have to defend on the Eastern European plain. Thus they want to get to the Carpathian Mountains in Southern Europe to force a possible invader through well-defended areas.
But let's look at the reality of this. When exactly has West Asia controlled the world? That entire theory of geopolitics was dismissed by the fact that the US and the rest of the New World exists. While control of the Eastern Mediterranian once meant an extremely rich, expansive empire, as nearly all the major empires situated on Asia Minor became, the sheer fact that the industrial capacity of the world has moved to the US completely destroys the notion that whoever controls that region is automatically a world power. To add to this, no one would consider Turkey a world power, even though they sit on the most important geopolitical region in the world, and have just as much claim to much of it as do the Russians on Ukraine and Eastern Europe. The Turks recognize the world has moved on and leverage what they can. Russia and the Russian elites would stand to make far more money through integrating with Europe proper, but that isn't the decision Russia made under Putin.
The other aspect is what the Russian elites write about how they view the world themselves. Dugin himself is so explicit on what he sees is the major conflict, which is to resist against the US-led world order. Here's a post where I quote from Dugin's 2015 book directly. LINK
So at what point do we say that the Russian elite are being unreasonable? The world has moved on from their specific viewpoint. No one is threatening to invade European Russia. The truth of the matter is that former Warsaw Pact nations were so wary of being under the Russian sphere of influence ever again that they changed the entire institutional apparatus of their governments just to join NATO and the EU, which was a process that took place under many leaders. The Russians should for once be thoughtful about why people want to join the American-led world order and not the Russian version.
This post was edited on 10/14/22 at 9:09 am
Posted on 10/14/22 at 9:08 am to CitizenK
quote:
Sorry but the clueless didn't know that Musk had been negotiating with Ukraine on Starlink use for MONTHS before Feb 24th. So you ideas are now proven to be wrong
no they arent and why the frick are you acting like such a douche bag this morning? and if you think you arent....you need to take a step back
fact is ukraine asked for it to be turned on and it was. who the frick cares about negotiations before feb?
bottomline is this
- starlink aka musk has been footing atleast part of the bill to the tune of 120 million over last 6 months. now he may have been giving too much bandwith etc whatever as it doesnt matter
- he is not asking to get the money back, he is asking for the US or Ukraine or someone else to pay going forward. he didnt threaten to turn it off, just said hey....im not eating this forever
- the government can decide if they dont want full open bandwidth to all terminals if it wants to lower the bill or it makes sense to
- and lastly you woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning and are acting like a child all morning. get some coffee and chill out
Posted on 10/14/22 at 9:10 am to stout
quote:
Imagine if China and Russia asked Mexico to join their united defense alliance.
But you have it backwards. It was former Warsaw Pact nations that asked to join. The Visegrad Group was formed in February of 91, 10 months prior to the collapse of the USSR. What drove NATO expansion was countries wanting to be in the US-led world order and not in the sphere of influence of Russia. That's the long and short of it.
Posted on 10/14/22 at 9:11 am to SlimTigerSlap
quote:
Stout, that's just not true. I posted an article about 2 pages back. Find it and educate yourself.
The terminals being partially funded doesn't mean he did not send it for free. The ongoing usage of it has been completely free. Musk pointed it out on Twitter
quote:
@elonmusk
In addition to terminals, we have to create, launch, maintain & replenish satellites & ground stations & pay telcos for access to Internet via gateways.
We’ve also had to defend against cyberattacks & jamming, which are getting harder.
Burn is approaching ~$20M/month.
Do you still want to argue that because some of the terminals have been partially funded that none of it was free from Musk?
This post was edited on 10/14/22 at 9:14 am
Posted on 10/14/22 at 9:11 am to stout
quote:eh
And frick you for equating me to the Q guys
Posted on 10/14/22 at 9:12 am to stout
quote:
quote:
we should help them as we have a chance to bring down our 2nd biggest politcal foe.
Defending Ukraine is not going to bring down Russia. Sorry to burst your bubble.
But I thought this was a NATO plot to take over Russia and their resources
Posted on 10/14/22 at 9:14 am to stout
quote:
Do you still want to argue that because some of the terminals have been partially funded that none of it was free from Musk?
I do not want to argue that point.
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