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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 10/11/22 at 4:40 pm to
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
138865 posts
Posted on 10/11/22 at 4:40 pm to
quote:

Do you know what I'm referring to?

Don't play an imbecile, it doesn't suit you.

Think about that before you pop off something else beneath you.

But yes, I'm obviously far more aware of the events than you realized.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39820 posts
Posted on 10/11/22 at 4:42 pm to
Also incorrect. Just someone who has been interested in geopolitics for a long time and also someone who hates bad arguments, hence why the Roy reference made you memorable, as you were making a very bad argument and your support for it was that Roy was a Maoist, which was very idiotic.
Posted by OleWar
Troy H. Middleton Library
Member since Mar 2008
5828 posts
Posted on 10/11/22 at 4:43 pm to
Hey troll, why didn't you respond to my post earlier?
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39820 posts
Posted on 10/11/22 at 4:45 pm to
Well what occurred that night would also qualify as political interference in my view, as Aksynonov didn't represent a wide body of the Crimean electorate and was installed anyway. It should be regarded as a coup as well, given what occurred.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
138865 posts
Posted on 10/11/22 at 4:45 pm to
quote:

quote:

When we organized a coup to unseat the democratically-elected, fairly-elected president
Yeah, just another pathetic, anti-American, Russia-loving trolling liar.

Oh dear.
Is it your contention we played no role in the 2014 coup?
Or is it your contention Ukraine's president was not democratically-elected, fairly-elected in 2010?
Posted by OleWar
Troy H. Middleton Library
Member since Mar 2008
5828 posts
Posted on 10/11/22 at 4:46 pm to
And Roy's arguments on Afghanistan are tinged by his Marxist ideology. I can only assume for you to accept them, you are sympathetic and a fellow traveler.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
138865 posts
Posted on 10/11/22 at 4:50 pm to
quote:

It should be regarded as a coup as well, given what occurred.
So maybe I wasn't clear. That was a military takeover/invasion. "Coup" is an understatement.

The only "but" is Crimea was a region (oblast), not an entire country. I agree wholeheartedly with your contention though.
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42611 posts
Posted on 10/11/22 at 4:52 pm to
quote:

Interference? At least. I thought we were talking political interference. Obviously, war/invasion is cardinal amongst modes of "interference".


And this is a reason why Musk’s suggested peace deal is ludicrous. How can a free election be had in a war zone occupied by invaders?
Posted by OleWar
Troy H. Middleton Library
Member since Mar 2008
5828 posts
Posted on 10/11/22 at 4:55 pm to
I'm assuming you were just as perplexed by elections in Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, American South in the 1860s and 1870s.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39820 posts
Posted on 10/11/22 at 4:57 pm to
quote:

And Roy's arguments on Afghanistan are tinged by his Marxist ideology. I can only assume for you to accept them, you are sympathetic and a fellow traveler.



Nah, that book was only useful because it has an amazing amount of first-person documentation from early Jihadi movements in Afghanistan and Pakistan. It's a great source just for that alone. I don't even recall Roy's thesis, to be fair.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
138865 posts
Posted on 10/11/22 at 4:57 pm to
quote:

And this is a reason why Musk’s suggested peace deal is ludicrous. How can a free election be had in a war zone occupied by invaders?
Crimea given an internationally monitored vote would vote 90%+ for Russia, precisely for the reasons Musk outlined.

In no small part, that's why Ukraine was willing to cut off all water to Crimeans, and blow up their bridge. They are "Russian speakers". IAW Ukrainian perception, they are second class citizens.
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42611 posts
Posted on 10/11/22 at 5:06 pm to
quote:

Crimea given an internationally monitored vote would vote 90%+ for Russia, precisely for the reasons Musk outlined. In no small part, that's why Ukraine was willing to cut off all water to Crimeans, and blow up their bridge. They are "Russian speakers". IAW Ukrainian perception, they are second class citizens.


I was clearly referring to Musk’s proposal for the four recently annexed Oblasts to vote. I wasn’t talking about Crimea.

But since you brought it up, if Russia was to leave Crimea completely except for their naval base there, and then after a year I’d say let the people be heard in an honest and fair election

But that’s not going to happen. We both know it.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39820 posts
Posted on 10/11/22 at 5:07 pm to
quote:

So maybe I wasn't clear. That was a military takeover/invasion. "Coup" is an understatement.



Oh I see. For me, that showed several things. First it didn't matter what the interim government said with regard to Crimea. Second, the timing gave enough plausible deniability internationally to make it seem that it was in response to the interim government, but the scale of that operation could not possibly happen overnight or even organically. Lastly, given that Euromaiden was in response to Yanukovych not signing a FTA with the EU, it is hard to see the direct connection between signing that agreement and Russia's Crimean interest, which was negotiated between Ukraine and Russia in 2010 which gave Russia use of its Crimean bases until the 2040s. Was Ukraine not going to honor that agreement just because they signed an agreement with the EU? It is nonsensical reasoning.
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
20970 posts
Posted on 10/11/22 at 5:10 pm to
quote:

Oh dear.
Is it your contention we played no role in the 2014 coup?
Or is it your contention Ukraine's president was not democratically-elected, fairly-elected in 2010?


When you call a revolution a "coup," you expose yourself for the pro-Russian scum you are.

Read the Wikipedia article if you actually want to learn what it was (I know that you don't, or don't care).
Posted by PrecedentedTimes
Member since Dec 2020
3128 posts
Posted on 10/11/22 at 5:18 pm to
Good lord this thread went to shite quickly without Chromedome.

3 pages of arguing and mud flinging.
Posted by tigeraddict
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2007
14811 posts
Posted on 10/11/22 at 5:22 pm to
A big page growth in a short amount of time means another breakthrough offensive, blown bridge, or troll infestation

Usually the latter….. l just scroll past the usual names and miss the trolling.
Posted by notiger1997
Metairie
Member since May 2009
61723 posts
Posted on 10/11/22 at 5:24 pm to
Yep.
Any chance someone can start a war update thread?
Posted by Chromdome35
Fast lane, behind a slow driver
Member since Nov 2010
8165 posts
Posted on 10/11/22 at 5:31 pm to
It's a very slow day on the twitter and telegram feeds.

Rybar comments on the Kherson front from this morning Ukrainian time.
https://t.me/rybar/40071
quote:

?????????? Battle for Kherson: the situation in the Andreevsky and Berislavsky areas
as of 16.00 October 11, 2022

??On the Andreevsky sector of the front, the formations of the 46th separate airmobile brigade, supported by two artillery crews, reinforced with armored vehicles and anti-tank systems, are advancing on the positions of the RF Armed Forces in Borozensky along the forest belts 16 km east of Davydov Brod.

??At the Berislav sector, artillery crews of the 60th Infantry Brigade are conducting artillery preparation on Russian positions at the Pyatikhatki-Polyanka line ahead of another assault attempt.

In the morning in Ukrainka a meeting of the commanders of the tactical level of the 17th tank brigade took place. The personnel of the 80th detachment of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were rotated at the forward strongholds.

Map in high resolution



Rybar on the Eastern Front, afternoon, Ukraine Time
https://t.me/rybar/40069
quote:

?????????? The situation in the Soledar direction
as of 15.00 October 11, 2022

??The command of the OTG "Soledar" expects an active offensive of Russian troops on the lines of Kodema - Kurdyumovka and Klinovoye - Krasnaya Gora to further block Bakhmut (Artemovsk) from the northeast and south.

??The evacuation of public service employees to Chasov Yar is being carried out from Bakhmut itself. In some units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, signatures are being collected on the issue of distrust of the command of the group.

??Fighters of PMC "Wagner" during the fighting went to the south-eastern outskirts of Bakhmut and established control over Ivangrad. Ukrainian formations suffered losses and retreated to the Klescheevka area.

??To strengthen the defense and restore positions, 43 military personnel were also deployed to the Kleshcheevka area, as well as one reserve platoon to the Otradovka area. The wounded are being evacuated from Ivanovsky (Red) with the help of armored combat vehicles (AFVs).

??The Wagner PMC detachments eliminated the stronghold of the Armed Forces of Ukraine to the west of Nikolaevka, which interfered with control over the section of the Nikolaevka Second - Otradovka highway. In addition, a stronghold of Ukrainian units was taken to the north-west of Zaitsevo, which was liberated at the end of last week.

??In order to contain the advance, artillery crews and Mi-8 helicopters of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are firing at Ivangrad and Vesela Dolina.

??In the area of ????Disputed, the Wagner PMC detachments captured the stronghold of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, which was located on both sides of the Verkhnekamenka - Berestovoye highway.

The Russian forces managed to come close to the territory of the gas compressor station, where long-term firing points and equipped positions of Ukrainian units are also located. Further progress towards the Disputable is hampered by a complex mine situation.




Rybar on overall situation late afternoon ukrianian time
https://t.me/rybar/40086
quote:

???????????? Chronicle of a special military operation
for October 11, 2022

The RF Armed Forces continued to strike at infrastructure facilities in Ukraine. Russian forces hit the Ladyzhynska thermal power plant in the Vinnitsa region, an electrical substation in the Lviv region, and a railway junction in Shepetovka. In the vicinity of Kyiv, there were also fires on the territory of CHPP-6 and the Kyiv hydroelectric power station.

Attacks on critical infrastructure have already borne fruit: the Ukrainian authorities have announced the cessation of electricity exports to the European Union, and emergency power outages have occurred in the regions of the country.

?? Shelling of the territories of the Russian Federation:

??Ukrainian formations attacked an electrical substation in Shebekino in the Belgorod region, as a result of which several thousand citizens in the region were left without electricity.

??The Armed Forces of Ukraine attacked an agricultural enterprise in the village of Nizhny Olshanets, Belgorod Region, there were no wounded or dead among the civilian population.

??Starobelsk direction:
??In the Kupyansky sector, the Armed Forces of Ukraine again attempted to attack the positions of Russian forces at the Olshana-Pershotravneve line, but were repulsed.

??Soledar direction:

??Fighters of PMC "Wagner" in the course of heavy fighting were able to reach the southeastern outskirts of Bakhmut and establish control over Ivangrad. The Armed Forces of Ukraine, in turn, retreated to the Kleshcheevka area.

??“Wagnerites” eliminated the enemy’s stronghold near Nikolaevka, which prevented the establishment of control over the section of the Nikolaevka Second - Otradovka highway. They also stormed the positions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine northwest of Zaitsevo and in the area of ????Disputed.

??Luhansk region:

??The enemy attacked the city of Stakhanov in the Lugansk Republic, damaging civilian infrastructure.

??Donetsk direction:

??Ukrainian formations again shelled the Donetsk agglomeration: Donetsk, Makeevka, Yasinovataya and other settlements were hit.

??Zaporozhye direction:
??In the Zaporozhye direction, the enemy continues to concentrate personnel and military equipment in preparation for an offensive in the area of ??Orekhov and Gulyaipol.

??The RF Armed Forces hit the firing positions of Ukrainian formations in the area of ??Nikopol and Marganets, from where the Zaporizhzhya NPP and Energodar are being shelled.

??Southern Front: Nikolaevsko-Berislavsky section

??On the Andreevsky sector of the front, units of the 46th brigade launched an offensive against the positions of the Russian Armed Forces in Boroznensky, east of Davydov Brod.

??In the Berislav sector, Ukrainian formations fired at the positions of Russian forces in the area of ??Pyatikhatki and Polyanka.


Posted by mmcgrath
Indianapolis
Member since Feb 2010
37341 posts
Posted on 10/11/22 at 5:37 pm to
quote:

Is it your contention we played no role in the 2014 coup?
What coup? He wasn't removed from office. He fled the country because he sold out to Putin and was corrupt and probably heading to jail if he stayed.
Posted by Chromdome35
Fast lane, behind a slow driver
Member since Nov 2010
8165 posts
Posted on 10/11/22 at 5:39 pm to
Decent maps of the current front lines and activity. Right Click, open in new tab and zoom in. ETA: Evidently you can't zoom into these, sorry. Here is a link to the source where you can get closer.

https://militaryland.net/news/invasion-day-230-summary/

Eastern Front


Bakhmut Front


Donetsk Front


Zaporizhzhia Front


Kherson Front
This post was edited on 10/11/22 at 5:42 pm
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