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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 10/11/22 at 3:33 pm to
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
138865 posts
Posted on 10/11/22 at 3:33 pm to
quote:

When the interim government took over for the Russian puppet, they told Putin that they would not seek NATO membership, Russia didn’t care. They wanted Crimea back.
As I said, you're poorly informed. When the interim government took over, Russia already had Crimea.
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
173627 posts
Posted on 10/11/22 at 3:34 pm to
quote:


But to keep you from guessing, my druthers are for peace.

And to just give Russia whatever they want without resistance.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39820 posts
Posted on 10/11/22 at 3:37 pm to
quote:

But to keep you from guessing, my druthers are for peace. My druthers are that all parties understand where decision trees lead. Unfortunately, they don't.



Except that you said that Ukraine should have taken the April deal, conceding Luhansk, where the line of the Northern offensive is at currently. I'm glad the Ukrainians were not as naïve as you appear to be.

quote:

My druthers would have been Crimea in Ukraine's hands and NATO expansion in the crapper.



Nah, NATO expansion is good. The Russians cannot make security demands of another sovereign nation. That is fundamentally ridiculous.
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42611 posts
Posted on 10/11/22 at 3:37 pm to
quote:

When the interim government took over for the Russian puppet, they told Putin that they would not seek NATO membership, Russia didn’t care. They wanted Crimea back.As I said, you're poorly informed. When the interim government took over, Russia already had Crimea.


My reference:
quote:

The interim Yatseniuk Government which came to power initially said, with reference to the country's non-aligned status, that it had no plans to join NATO.[7] However, following the Russian military invasion in Ukraine and parliamentary elections in October 2014, the new government made joining NATO a priority

Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
138865 posts
Posted on 10/11/22 at 3:39 pm to
quote:

Do you think Russian interference in Ukrainian politics started in 2014?

Russian interference in Ukrainian politics .... in 2014?
What is it about the 2014 coup that you do understand?

Perhaps you were referring to 2004? But suffice it to say, Russian interference wasn't running the 2014 coup d'etat.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39820 posts
Posted on 10/11/22 at 3:41 pm to
quote:

Russian interference in Ukrainian politics .... in 2014?


Again, answer the question directly for once. I know what I am asking. I definitely know more about this than you do. So please answer the question.

quote:

What is it about the 2014 coup that you do understand?



Educate me oh wise one. Please talk more about how Ukraine should concede territory formally and then in the next breath talk about peace.
Posted by lowspark12
nashville, tn
Member since Aug 2009
22581 posts
Posted on 10/11/22 at 3:41 pm to
Thank god our forefathers didn’t want peace at the cost of liberty.

I don’t get the “ukriane should just lay there and take it” crowd.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39820 posts
Posted on 10/11/22 at 3:42 pm to
quote:

I don’t get the “ukriane should just lay there and take it” crowd.



'But you see, Ukraine deserved it because Russian security interests should supersede their own! And because of a dastardly coup, the Russians had to invade!'
Posted by DabosDynasty
Member since Apr 2017
5180 posts
Posted on 10/11/22 at 3:42 pm to
quote:

The mistake you are making is giving Ukraine autonomy.


This stance makes us no different than the Russians, therefore I disagree.

I get the corruption argument, but that is not quite the same as their not having autonomy nor should it be the desired state for Ukraine.
Posted by Kentucker
Rabbit Hash, KY
Member since Apr 2013
20055 posts
Posted on 10/11/22 at 3:45 pm to
quote:

A week or two there was a video of a drone grenade strike on a RF soldier getting head from another RF soldier in a trench or something. I believe the Russian response was that the soldiers were "taking turns kissing the icon," which is something that Orthodox folks do.


I don’t think they were killed since you can see them jumping from the trench after the grenade exploded in the trench next to them.

The one getting the blowjob may have lost his penis, however, when the fellater bit down hard in shock when the grenade exploded.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
138865 posts
Posted on 10/11/22 at 3:45 pm to
quote:

My reference:
Your reference was a request for a mulligan after things did not work out the way the coup players expected. It was the same thing Ukraine attempted after the invasion. It's kind of a pattern. Oh! Wait! those things you were asking for last month, and we said "frick You!" as we laughed .... we are 100% on board and willing to do them now.

If only we could turn back time.
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42611 posts
Posted on 10/11/22 at 3:47 pm to
quote:

I get the corruption argument, but that is not quite the same as their not having autonomy nor should it be the desired state for Ukraine.


They keep talking corruption, but I googled top ten corrupt nations in Europe and Ukraine was not in the two lists I quickly found.
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
15692 posts
Posted on 10/11/22 at 3:48 pm to
quote:

Russian interference in Ukrainian politics .... in 2014?
What is it about the 2014 coup that you do understand?

Perhaps you were referring to 2004? But suffice it to say, Russian interference wasn't running the 2014 coup d'etat.



Sorry but your info comes right out of the Kremlin via Putin's Pundits and propaganda, just like you don't know crap about oil.

Russia actually had an agreement with NATO and a seat at NATO's table. Putin crapped all over it.

The INVASION was in 2014, not 2022.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
138865 posts
Posted on 10/11/22 at 3:48 pm to
quote:

I know what I am asking.
That simply isn't evident. Sorry.
quote:

I definitely know more about this than you do.
Okay.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39820 posts
Posted on 10/11/22 at 3:49 pm to
quote:

Your reference was a request for a mulligan after things did not work out the way the coup players expected.


Brother, you really need to focus on the timeline of the Crimean issue. Because that timeline flies in the face of this notion.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39820 posts
Posted on 10/11/22 at 3:51 pm to
quote:

That simply isn't evident. Sorry.



Again, the argument you seem to be making is that it is okay for Russia to interfere in Ukrainian politics directly when it suits them, but not for any other party. That isn't the way geopolitics works, thankfully, so your appeals to the 'coup' are nonsensical.
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42611 posts
Posted on 10/11/22 at 3:52 pm to
quote:

Your reference was a request for a mulligan after things did not work out the way the coup players expected


My reference backs up what I posted.

Russia didn’t conquer and annex Crimea in a day. It took several weeks.

It did go fairly quickly, but it took time.

I think Putin believed he could pull off Crimea 2 in thd Februsry attack. He got a few key players to help him, but unlike in Crimea, Ukrainians didn’t roll over. They shocked the Russians in Kiev. They stemmed the tide. They beat Putin back.

This us not Ctinea2.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
138865 posts
Posted on 10/11/22 at 3:53 pm to
quote:

just like you don't know crap about oil.
CK, you thought 10% of US domestic oil production fell out d/t EOC retirement over 24 mos ... unreplaced. I assumed you'd be grateful for someone having pointed out the lunacy of that presumption.

Instead you're salty?
This post was edited on 10/11/22 at 3:57 pm
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
138865 posts
Posted on 10/11/22 at 3:54 pm to
quote:

I think Putin believed he could pull off Crimea 2 in thd Februsry attack.
Now on that, you may be right.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39820 posts
Posted on 10/11/22 at 3:56 pm to
quote:

When the interim government took over, Russia already had Crimea.




Absolutely categorically false. The interim government took over on February 27th, 2014. Do you know what else happened on that day, oh arbiter of all knowledge on Eastern European geopolitics?
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