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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 10/11/22 at 12:13 pm to WestCoastAg
Posted on 10/11/22 at 12:13 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
Ukraine was immediately admitted into at least the EU
Russia cares more about this than NATO, bubba. By a LOT
1
Posted on 10/11/22 at 12:17 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
This pundit on Russian state TV gives some insight into their cruise missile stockpiles. It sounds like they don't have a lot just sitting.
Uh-oh. I hope that pundit doesn’t get disappeared.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 12:22 pm to TigerDoc
Musk tweets that the report is not true:
[Edit: I wonder how much work "spoken" is doing in that sentence.]
quote:
I have spoken to Putin only once and that was about 18 months ago. The subject matter was space.
[Edit: I wonder how much work "spoken" is doing in that sentence.]
This post was edited on 10/11/22 at 12:24 pm
Posted on 10/11/22 at 12:23 pm to SlimTigerSlap
quote:Did you read what "Elon tried to sell"?
And then Elon tried to sell it to his squad lol. Pathetic.
Because if you did, your post surely does not make it evident.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 12:27 pm to Arksulli
quote:
Surovikin
General Armageddon is going to feel a little like Brian Kelly. His soldiers are running away and the "cupboard is bare". Surovikin just doesn't have the portal and even with NIL money (Wagner) he is going to be getting in 1 stars at best. Russia is an (unwilling) walk-on Army now.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 12:27 pm to GOP_Tiger
Thanks and I just edited my post to reflect his denial.
I also wonder if that particular language suggests a non-denial denial.
I also wonder if that particular language suggests a non-denial denial.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 12:30 pm to TigerDoc
quote:
Ian Bremmer claims Elon Musk told him that he'd spoken to Putin (Musk denies speaking to him recently):
quote:
Elon Musk spoke directly with Russian President Vladimir Putin before tweeting a proposal to end the war in Ukraine that would have seen territory permanently ceded to Russia, it has been claimed.
In a mailout sent to Eurasia Group subscribers, Ian Bremmer wrote that Tesla CEO Musk told him that Putin was “prepared to negotiate,” but only if Crimea remained Russian, if Ukraine accepted a form of permanent neutrality, and Ukraine recognised Russia’s annexation of Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia.
quote:
negotiate
i don't think this word means what they think it means
Posted on 10/11/22 at 12:38 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
If Ukraine gave them Crimea, Russians left their annexed territories and an UN led, controlled, and monitored vote of self determination happened in those territories, and Ukraine was immediately admitted into at least the EU with a path to NATO membership, that would be something that I think would be a fair compromise to everyone
How is Ukraine giving up Crimea "Fair" giving into Putins demands even this one rewards him starting this war guarenteeing furture continued bad behavior.
The fair un elections is a fantasy most of these regions
have been 75% depopulated often, in part, through forced deportation. If Russia leaves then you would have to wait at least two years for rebuilding and re population and Russia would have to return all Ukrainians deported before even considering a vote. And even this is not OK because it generally treats the Russian BS that the people in this region ever wanted to leave Ukraine as partially legit which it is not.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 12:40 pm to joemuggs
quote:
How is Ukraine giving up Crimea "Fair" giving into Putins demands even this one rewards him starting this war guarenteeing furture continued bad behavior.
I mean, technically, Crimea was Russian before the invasion.
We can't go back in time to 2014 unless Ukraine really starts messing up Russia
Posted on 10/11/22 at 12:43 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Did you read what "Elon tried to sell"?
Because if you did, your post surely does not make it evident.
I did.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 12:47 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
just a long-term ceasefire.
and this would be deadly for Ukraine they will never have the advantage they have now especially going into a winter RUAF is totally unprepared from because they stole all their own armies equipment or just stole the money for it. Putins Russia is on the ropes right now and the advantage must be pressed until there is a fair peace or Ukraine run out of steam and decides it wants to negotiate a peace. Musk has been a great genius in many cases but in this he is being dumb, naive, or something much darker, and should not be listened to.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 12:48 pm to SlimTigerSlap
quote:
I did.
The you know Musk did not propose "Ukraine recognise Russia’s annexation of Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia."
Posted on 10/11/22 at 12:53 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Russia cares more about this than NATO, bubba. By a LOT
Yes and no ... Russia only cares about NATO to the extent if Ukraine joins NATO then Russia can't bite anymore big chunks of territory out of Ukraine for itself. The fact the Russia leaders have any type of sincere concern about NATO aggressively attacking them is non-sense just a BS made up Casus Belli for the families back in Russia getting their sons back in body bags so Putin and some Oligarchs can increase their personal power and fame.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 12:56 pm to doubleb
quote:
Exactly. OML beats the horse over and over again, but at least he debates his POV.
OLM is dishonest about his true position. The pro-Russia crowd understands that under the current circumstance Russia is not having military success. So advocates like OLM are advocating for an arguably “neutral” change in circumstances that will produce conditions that will increase the odds of Russian military success.
OLM’s advocacy is to convince people that the west, and particularly the United States, should not provide any military assistance to Ukraine. His unspoken point is that when the US stops supporting Ukraine, there is a significantly increased probability of a Russian military victory.
While I tolerate and do not engage OLM, his actual propaganda goal is clear. He’s dishonest when he asserts he is afraid for the US. He is trying to get others to buy into a change of circumstances that would be specifically targeted at putting Russia in the best possible position for a military victory.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 12:57 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
The you know Musk did not propose "Ukraine recognise Russia’s annexation of Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia."
But it shows something extremely relevant to negotiations, which combined with Medvedev's comments, should undermine any notion that Russia is going to negotiate in good-faith.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 1:06 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I mean, technically, Crimea was Russian before the invasion.
We can't go back in time to 2014 unless Ukraine really starts messing up Russia
It was illegally occupied by Russia no one in the west recognized that (not sure what Chinas thoughts on it were). Are you also suggesting Luhansk and Donetsk are now permanently Russian? they've been "Russian" by your definition since 2014 also? Saying we can go back to February but not 2014 is nonsensical this has been an on going conflict since then, just largely ignored by the world.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 1:07 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
If Ukraine gave them Crimea, Russians left their annexed territories and an UN led, controlled, and monitored vote of self determination happened in those territories, and Ukraine was immediately admitted into at least the EU with a path to NATO membership, that would be something that I think would be a fair compromise to everyone
If you give me your bank account and all stocks and bonds, I leave you and your family in peace, and a mob controlled, and monitored vote by your neighbors decided that you could remain in your home, and Black Lives Matter was selected to replace your governmental entities, that might (by your reasoning) be something that would be a fair compromise to everyone.
WHY THE HAIL SHOULD UKRAINE GIVE UP ANYTHING? THEY ARE THE AGGRIEVED PARTY.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 1:08 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
The you know Musk did not propose "Ukraine recognise Russia’s annexation of Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia."
He might as well have since what he proposed was totally infeasible.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 1:09 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
The you know Musk did not propose "Ukraine recognise Russia’s annexation of Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia."
No, he floated the idea that these four conquered states could have an election to decide their fate with the Russian army there. Then they would leave IF the vote went with Ukraine. Fair?
Posted on 10/11/22 at 1:10 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I mean, technically, Crimea was Russian before the invasion.
We can't go back in time to 2014 unless Ukraine really starts messing up Russia
Our occupation informs our views of "negotiations" which I think puts us at odds with the general public sometimes. We spend a lot of time adjusting expectations which is rarely taken well.
For a negotiated peace to occur in the short term both sides will have to give up something they want whether or not they think it is "right". Where the pieces sit on the board at the current time Crimea is not something that Russia would give up now, period. If Crimea is Ukraine's red line peace is not around the corner. Russia is a long way from giving that up.
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