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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 10/1/22 at 3:35 pm to SlimTigerSlap
Posted on 10/1/22 at 3:35 pm to SlimTigerSlap
quote:
I'm struggling with his basis for this claim. If China claimed to be One Pangea, would everyone else have dubious claims of sovereignty?
It's yet one more thing thrown against the wall to see if it sticks as a casus belli (Azov Regiment, biolabs, etc.). They'll continue to throw things against the wall to deflect against the plain as day illegality of the Russian invasion.
I've brought up Ireland (I'm talking about the Republic of Ireland) in this thread in another context. But it would be similar to saying that Ireland's claim to sovereignty is "dubious" because prior to independence in 1922, the previous 700 years Ireland was an English client state.
Edit: Tomorrow, the British Army could invade Ireland, and the "Ukraine has never actually been an independent country prior to independence" people would be forced to accept such an invasion as legal.
This post was edited on 10/1/22 at 3:38 pm
1
Posted on 10/1/22 at 3:43 pm to BrianKellyRespecter
quote:
I understand reasonable minds can disagree about this.
Do you believe the USA should honor the treaties and other international agreements that we have signed and the Senate ratified? Note, I am not asking if you agree with the treaty or agreement. I am just asking if you think that the USA should honor our word on treaties that we have actually signed and ratified.
Posted on 10/1/22 at 3:46 pm to BrianKellyRespecter
quote:
OK boomer. The Soviet Union has been dead and gone for 30 years. The Russian Federation poses ZERO national security threat to the United States unless you consider maintaining the nations of Eastern Europe as our vassal states as vital to our national interest, which I for one do not.
Here you have the lowest-performing student in the special Ed class. He thinks thinks that Russia has over 5000 nuclear weapons because of Eastern Europe.
Posted on 10/1/22 at 3:52 pm to WeeWee
Are you talking about the Budapest memorandum or what? I didn’t think the USA had a defense treaty with Ukraine prior to the hostilities. Am I wrong?. Of course we were directly involved in the 2014 maidan which was a gross breach of the Budapest memo.
Posted on 10/1/22 at 3:53 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
He thinks thinks that Russia has over 5000 nuclear weapons because of Eastern Europe.
The Cold War is over boomer.
Posted on 10/1/22 at 3:55 pm to BrianKellyRespecter
quote:
We keep the shipping lanes open. You frick with the shipping lanes, you frick with us.
Granted Ukraine was only #67 in US trading partners last year, but they were still a trading partner. Russia blockaded the port of Odessa which interfered with trade between the USA and Ukraine. So Russia did f**k with the shipping lanes. So even using your narrow minded worldview the Russians f**ked with us, and that is a justifiable reason for the USA and NATO to be involved in the war.
Posted on 10/1/22 at 3:58 pm to BrianKellyRespecter
quote:
Are you talking about the Budapest memorandum or what? I didn’t think the USA had a defense treaty with Ukraine prior to the hostilities. Am I wrong?. Of course we were directly involved in the 2014 maidan which was a gross breach of the Budapest memo.
In the Budapest deal, England, Russia and the US agreed to protect Ukraine’s sovereignty.
Thd Msidan deal was brokered by the EU not the US.
Posted on 10/1/22 at 4:02 pm to BrianKellyRespecter
What grade level are you at in school? You have zero logic in your statements. How does the US Navy keep commerce flowing but for its strike capability and actually striking anyone trying to close shipping lanes?
The vast majority of the Ukrainian public was involved or at least for Maidan. Are you trying to say that everyone in Ukraine is a puppet on a string like Putin has you?
Please dude get actually informed
The vast majority of the Ukrainian public was involved or at least for Maidan. Are you trying to say that everyone in Ukraine is a puppet on a string like Putin has you?
Please dude get actually informed
Posted on 10/1/22 at 4:03 pm to WeeWee
Have they said what type of aircraft it was that crashed off the runway? If it’s in Belbek I would think it would have been one of the few Su-27s the Russians left there after the attack in August at the Saky air base or possibly a Su-30. They left a very skeleton air wing to say they could give air cover but the reality was they took out about 90% of their operational fighters after the August attack for fear of another one.
Posted on 10/1/22 at 4:04 pm to BrianKellyRespecter
quote:
BrianKellyRespecter
Shitbird
Here is one of your commie buddies…. Hope the alarm clock wasn’t too loud. LINK
This post was edited on 10/1/22 at 4:09 pm
Posted on 10/1/22 at 4:12 pm to RLDSC FAN
To get back to the clinical analysis of the war, supposing, in the unlikely event Putin acquiesces to the Chechens' suggestion that he use "low-yield" nuclear weapons, what "low-yield" weapons are in the Russian arsenal and what would be their estimated yields per weapon?
Posted on 10/1/22 at 4:18 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:Hell, they might be posting an hour before the explosion, if there's a delay in the launch.
If Russia uses nukes it will be about 1 hour before people on the poli board are posting Russia disinfo saying it was actually the CIA who used nukes
Posted on 10/1/22 at 4:24 pm to BrianKellyRespecter
Stop dodging the question. Do you believe the USA should honor its world and fulfill the aspects of treaties it signs and ratifies?
Yes I am talking about the Budapest memorandum, which the majority of international legal scholars and the Clinton, GWB, Obama, Trump, and Biden state departments have interpreted as a treaty in which the USA promises to provide Ukraine with assistance if they are attacked. However, it is not just the security assurances promised to Ukraine in the Budapest memorandum that give the USA the right to be involved in the conflict on the side of Ukraine. The Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, the Hellsinki Accords, and the United Nations Charter all contain provisions which Ukraine has requested be enacted. Since we signed all of those treaties we must fulfill the obligations.
quote:
Are you talking about the Budapest memorandum or what? I didn’t think the USA had a defense treaty with Ukraine prior to the hostilities. Am I wrong?.
Yes I am talking about the Budapest memorandum, which the majority of international legal scholars and the Clinton, GWB, Obama, Trump, and Biden state departments have interpreted as a treaty in which the USA promises to provide Ukraine with assistance if they are attacked. However, it is not just the security assurances promised to Ukraine in the Budapest memorandum that give the USA the right to be involved in the conflict on the side of Ukraine. The Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, the Hellsinki Accords, and the United Nations Charter all contain provisions which Ukraine has requested be enacted. Since we signed all of those treaties we must fulfill the obligations.
Posted on 10/1/22 at 4:26 pm to UndercoverBryologist
quote:
I've brought up Ireland (I'm talking about the Republic of Ireland) in this thread in another context. But it would be similar to saying that Ireland's claim to sovereignty is "dubious" because prior to independence in 1922, the previous 700 years Ireland was an English client state.
I like how people bring up Iraq as an analogy as to the US has done something similar. Personally I think Panama is a much better example.
The US (Russia) basically supported a Panamanian (Donbass) independence movement from Colombia (Ukraine) just so we could build a canal because Colombia wasn't agreeable to the American terms for building it. In exchange the US got 10 miles on either side of the canal once it was built.
Doesn't make that whole thing right just like Russia really isn't right in the current situation
Posted on 10/1/22 at 4:33 pm to StormyMcMan
quote:
Doesn't make that whole thing right just like Russia really isn't right in the current situation
Yeah, unfortunately another thing that gets thrown against the wall is "America has also illegally infringed on other countries' sovereignties" whataboutism.
It's a hopeless argument. It inevitably leads to an infinite regression of "well, so-and-so did it, so why can't so-and-so do it?"
America has a shitty history doing this and I called out the Iraq War at the time. But one imperial shithead at a time.
This post was edited on 10/1/22 at 4:34 pm
Posted on 10/1/22 at 4:41 pm to UndercoverBryologist
An imperialist nation asserts its own government when it takes territory. Where has the US done that since the Spanish American War?
Posted on 10/1/22 at 4:45 pm to CitizenK
quote:
Russian source on situation of Ukrainian advances
"clashes with enemy mobile groups are already taking place on the outskirts of Kremennaya. Torskoye and Terny can also be abandoned by retreating troops. Ours are rolling back to the Kremennaya-Svatovo line."
LINK
Posted on 10/1/22 at 4:46 pm to CitizenK
quote:
An imperialist nation asserts its own government when it takes territory. Where has the US done that since the Spanish American War?
Maybe "imperialism" isn't the best word for the Iraq War, and even when we do do shitty things, we still exert a greater call for democratic government and personal liberties than any other Great Power in history...that being said, we shouldn't have invaded Iraq in 2003.
Posted on 10/1/22 at 4:52 pm to UndercoverBryologist
Strictly political talk. Doesn’t belong here
Posted on 10/1/22 at 5:00 pm to jeffsdad
quote:
Strictly political talk. Doesn’t belong here
Screw it. You’re right. I’m all talked out on the politics of this story right now anyway and the Arkansas Bama game has gotten interesting.
Any more on-the-ground updates?
This post was edited on 10/1/22 at 5:07 pm
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