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Message
re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 8/1/22 at 10:09 am to cypher
Posted on 8/1/22 at 10:09 am to cypher
quote:
Probably a dumb question...
Is it possible to repair snapped cables and rebar without rebuilding an entire span?
Caveat again: I was a combat engineer and despite the build and destroy mission my unit was very much a destroy asset.
For a short term fix it is possible and the method depends on the type of concrete pour used. From the initial set of photos I pegged the bridge as pre-stressed but after the video of the second attack the guy from Utah suggested it was post tensioned which looking closer at the videos I think is probably correct.
if it is prestressed rod busters could repair the rebar and then repour and probably get enough strength for some period of use. Post tensioned gets a little more squirrely because you would have to patch the cables AND get them under 16 tons or so of pressure, replace the rebar and then pour.
I have no idea how effective these repairs would be and concrete is brittle so the explosions would have filled the concrete with stress cracks. In the US that bridge would never be used for civilian traffic until the section was replaced in war time lots of safety protocols go out the window. Russia is probably worse than most with this.
Remember I am just spitballin' and could be way off.
1
Posted on 8/1/22 at 10:15 am to Obtuse1
thanks.
Posted on 8/1/22 at 10:34 am to cypher
Just got off the phone with a degreed CE I went through EOAC with and he said whether it is pre or post tensioned you would be lucky to get back 1/3rd of the tensile strength but more likely no more than standard reinforced concrete which is normally about 25% of properly pre/post tensioned concrete.
He agreed that the parts of the span which have two unmolested beams are likely to be close to full strength. So they may have one usable lane in an emergency... like full scale retreat but HIMARS would likely stop that retreat in its tracks.
He agreed that the parts of the span which have two unmolested beams are likely to be close to full strength. So they may have one usable lane in an emergency... like full scale retreat but HIMARS would likely stop that retreat in its tracks.
Posted on 8/1/22 at 10:48 am to RogerTheShrubber
The EU is already planning for this. Presently, the US is bearing most of the cost to keep the government running. As percent of GDP, Poland is bearing the largest brunt by far. Poland had relied on Ukrainians to fill the gaps in their workforce for years. Those workers are not fighting the Orcs. For an economy the size of the USA or the EU, such a Marshall Plan is a drop in the bucket to fund with next to no economic impact on us, not anything near the packages passed by Trump or Biden for covid "relief" here. We are talking $ billions even if Ukraine was as corrupt as it was under Russian friendly presidents.
The reality is that the EU knows that the rest of the world is saying, "It's your problem. Take care of it yourself" The EU doesn't want Russia closer.
The reality is that the EU knows that the rest of the world is saying, "It's your problem. Take care of it yourself" The EU doesn't want Russia closer.
This post was edited on 8/1/22 at 10:57 am
Posted on 8/1/22 at 11:01 am to Obtuse1
It’s laughable how much one weapons system has fricked with the minds of the Russian military because they have no way of countering it. Their proof is that somehow they put a HIMARS in a 2nd story building? That’s makes tons of sense. Jesus Christ the Russians are really pathetic. It’s sad.
This post was edited on 8/1/22 at 11:18 am
Posted on 8/1/22 at 11:20 am to Obtuse1
quote:
Just got off the phone with a degreed CE
Appreciate the info. Thanks.
Posted on 8/1/22 at 11:57 am to Obtuse1
quote:
full scale retreat but HIMARS would likely stop that retreat in its tracks.
The point I made all along, no need to destroy the bridge when you can group shells like a head or heart grouping on a rifle range.
Posted on 8/1/22 at 12:08 pm to Tigris
quote:mmmmmhhh so much has changed since assurances were given.
could change.
and measures threatened for that matter.This post was edited on 8/1/22 at 12:11 pm
Posted on 8/1/22 at 12:15 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
Just got off the phone with a degreed CE I went through EOAC with and he said whether it is pre or post tensioned you would be lucky to get back 1/3rd of the tensile strength but more likely no more than standard reinforced concrete which is normally about 25% of properly pre/post tensioned concrete.
He agreed that the parts of the span which have two unmolested beams are likely to be close to full strength. So they may have one usable lane in an emergency... like full scale retreat but HIMARS would likely stop that retreat in its tracks.
i am a degreed CE with a speciality in repairing concrete and your friend is correct.
the possible solution would be to sawcut back to the undamaged beams, knock out all the concrete between and then place a shite load of rebar in there using epoxy and going back max depth but still not gonna get close to what it was being stressed and they are not going to be able to do it correctly in the middle of a war zone. it would require tons of scaffolding, tools, people with tons of expierence etc.
would have to be modeled to get best possible outcome which again sucks compared to pre/post tensioned.
Posted on 8/1/22 at 1:32 pm to lsu777
Pelosi going to Taiwan seems like a bad development for Ukraine. From what I understand China has stayed on the sidelines about as much as you could hope so far.
It seems one of the easiest ways for China to hit back at the US over this visit would be to provide more support to Russia and ensure the West remains thoroughly embroiled with Russia in Eastern Europe.
I think China is a major asshoe and we should be removing our supply chains as far from China as possible, but at this moment in time comity towards China seems like the best path forward. I hope she backs down and give China a win on this one.
It seems one of the easiest ways for China to hit back at the US over this visit would be to provide more support to Russia and ensure the West remains thoroughly embroiled with Russia in Eastern Europe.
I think China is a major asshoe and we should be removing our supply chains as far from China as possible, but at this moment in time comity towards China seems like the best path forward. I hope she backs down and give China a win on this one.
Posted on 8/1/22 at 1:33 pm to LSUCanFAN
quote:Totally off the wall question -- any chance at all someone got a sub in?
Something beyond Harpoon missiles has shifted the equation with the Black Sea fleet and the Bridge in Crimea, my guys are being unusually tight lipped about it but Russia is being a lot more conciliatory.
Posted on 8/1/22 at 1:45 pm to tokenBoiler
What the smallest vessel you can launch a harpoon or equivalent anti-ship missile off of?
Posted on 8/1/22 at 1:47 pm to ned nederlander
quote:
Pelosi going to Taiwan seems like a bad development for Ukraine. From what I understand China has stayed on the sidelines about as much as you could hope so far.
Did you really think China was just going to stay on the sidelines. These countries have nasty ambitions. We are about the only country who can lead the resistance to that.
Posted on 8/1/22 at 1:48 pm to ned nederlander
quote:
I think China is a major asshoe and we should be removing our supply chains as far from China as possible, but at this moment in time comity towards China seems like the best path forward. I hope she backs down and give China a win on this one.
Pelosi waving a white flag will merely delay the inevitable.
Posted on 8/1/22 at 1:49 pm to cypher
quote:
Probably a dumb question...
Is it possible to repair snapped cables and rebar without rebuilding an entire span?
rebar...yes....cables...not that i know of.
Posted on 8/1/22 at 2:08 pm to aTmTexas Dillo
quote:
Did you really think China was just going to stay on the sidelines. These countries have nasty ambitions. We are about the only country who can lead the resistance to that.
I’d guess it’s in China’s best interest to see her strongest neighbor floundering around against Ukraine and weakening themselves.
A weak Russia helps China.
Posted on 8/1/22 at 2:11 pm to ned nederlander
quote:Going out on a limb here, and I've been wrong before, but I believe that's the plan.
I hope she backs down and give China a win on this one.
Xi gets to play the strong man that backed down the Americans to the CCP Central Committee just before the 20th National Congress. Thus getting re-elected for the illegal third term.
We maintain the leader in China that has a head for business with the West and hasn't sent a can of beans to Putin. In spite of increasingly strident pleas for help from the Kremlin.
Our allies, especially the Taiwanese, get to sleep at night as they've known the plan ahead of time.
Pelosi? Having lived on The Hill all her adult life, she has a very thick skin and is happy to be a part of it. Her toughest job is keeping a straight face while talking to the media.
Win win win.
Posted on 8/1/22 at 2:14 pm to Coeur du Tigre
Best case scenario is her plane crashes into the ocean before arrival…. China doesn’t have to respond… US loses a vial politician… and Taiwan doesn’t have to hang out with her for a couple days.
That’s a triple win.
That’s a triple win.
Posted on 8/1/22 at 4:10 pm to Coeur du Tigre
This is also somewhat my suspicion (or hope?). If for no other reasons it seems impossible for me to imagine why pelosi would do this and create headaches for a democratic president that already has plenty of headaches.
Posted on 8/1/22 at 4:15 pm to aTmTexas Dillo
quote:
Did you really think China was just going to stay on the sidelines.
In Ukraine? Yes, I think China would be happy to continue to wait and see which way the winds blow in Eastern Europe.
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