re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

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Tito actually did a great job in keeping Yugoslavia together.

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Communist dictator. Job was easy.

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which is a great stance to have. until you remember that countries like russia exist, that they breed conflict, and that someone needs to exist to uphold some sort of order

if you want the chinese to do that then be my guest. but i think most people in the world prefer the US led world order that has existed for the last 80 years and want it to continue

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If by most people you mean North America and Western Europe and few countries like Japan and SK in the Far East then yes, most people want that “order” to continue. The vast majority of the world’s population doesn’t live in those countries though and they all view the world through a different lense than we do. To them they see a world order and set of rules established by the US and other Western Powers in the wake of WWII that doesn’t necessarily benefit them and that the west is more than happy to change the “rules of the game” whenever it suits us, a la Iraq, Syria or Libya. Most of the world would be more than happy to gravitate towards china if they saw that it benefited them more than aligning with the West. We’re already seeing this play out all over Africa and in parts of South America. Hell, even Russia has gained influence in Africa while Europe and the US are being pushed to the side there.

I would caution everyone from looking at world conflict and politics through the lense of the post WWII hegemony.

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developing countries are absolutely better off under the US led order than they would be else wise. we pushed for decolonization. we maintain global stability. we create a system that allows fair global trade

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I would agree, but many in the developing world and Asia would not.

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you are absolutely right. we are seeing exactly what chinas world order will look like in africa. where they offer predatory loans to desperate governments who cant possibly pay them back for the specific purpose of literally taking infrastructure and utilities from them

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In corrupt places like Africa the right people are getting rich with those deals. Just like they were when the US and mostly Europe had more influene there. Frankly, China is just outbribing the west right now. The West also attaches a lot of strings to their aid to the developing world. Pesky things like human rights and free and fair elections. China and Russia don’t give a shite about those things so corrupt rulers can literally have their cake and eat it too if they take money from them.

Looks like Russians are stalling out as the reach thx 6 month limit of their military, who could have predicted that

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If by most people you mean North America and Western Europe and few countries like Japan and SK in the Far East then yes, most people want that “order” to continue. The vast majority of the world’s population doesn’t live in those countries though and they all view the world through a different lense than we do. To them they see a world order and set of rules established by the US and other Western Powers in the wake of WWII that doesn’t necessarily benefit them and that the west is more than happy to change the “rules of the game” whenever it suits us, a la Iraq, Syria or Libya. Most of the world would be more than happy to gravitate towards china if they saw that it benefited them more than aligning with the West. We’re already seeing this play out all over Africa and in parts of South America. Hell, even Russia has gained influence in Africa while Europe and the US are being pushed to the side there.

I would caution everyone from looking at world conflict and politics through the lense of the post WWII hegemony.

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Largely agree with this, but it’s clearly in our best interest to maintain the world order of the last 75 years, particularly the last 30. Some people realize this but think it can exist without our continued involvement in lesser affairs. Some realize it and want us involved in everything. Some don’t realize this and don’t care in ignorance of the variety of long term consequences.

I think the majority of Americans think this can be maintained on autopilot simply because we’re the USA and none of these countries uninvolved in the preset global order would ever see short and/or long term benefits to its change. I agree with you that is not reality, the question remaining is how far from reality is it and how much does it matter.

I would caution the ME, African, and South & Latin American nations that today’s benefits will cost tomorrow on Chinese terms. That said, we cannot be everything to every country so we should prioritize our efforts in our own national self interest and I don’t think that’s the path we always take.

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In corrupt places like Africa the right people are getting rich with those deals. Just like they were when the US and mostly Europe had more influene there. Frankly, China is just outbribing the west right now. The West also attaches a lot of strings to their aid to the developing world. Pesky things like human rights and free and fair elections. China and Russia don’t give a shite about those things so corrupt rulers can literally have their cake and eat it too if they take money from them.

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That’s why they’re winning in those places and how they chose the benefits today that can be greater than benefits from us in the short term. This is where I thought you were going.

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China isn’t building gigantic bases in Africa to hand out water and rice in perpetuity. Base today, navy tomorrow.

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I assume most here already know about the Chinese Naval base in Djibouti. What many may not know is that they’ve built a huge deepwater port in Kenya that could easily host naval vessels and are close to inking a deal with Equatorial Guinea to construct their first ever naval base in the Atlantic.

That’s a great thought and all but if you don’t have big brother to stand up to the bullies of the world then the bullies will try to lead. Sorry but we can’t just sit in a circle singing peace on earth with countries like Russia, China, North Korea and Iran around. Someone has to keep them in check. We are planet Earth’s system of checks and balances.

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and are close to inking a deal with Equatorial Guinea to construct their first ever naval base in the Atlantic.

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Not good, but imagine I wrote it in Chinese as intended when I copied and pasted from Google.

TD doesn’t recognize mandarin. It just showed questionmarks. Originally I copied and pasted “not good” in mandarin from Google translate.