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re: Kirk Herbstreit slams Travel Ball culture
Posted on 8/12/25 at 9:56 am to Lgrnwd
Posted on 8/12/25 at 9:56 am to Lgrnwd
My kids were never into stick & ball sports, but I have to disagree with the travel aspect of his argument. When my kid competed on the sport karate circuit, we traveled out of state around 12-15x/year. On most of those trips I’d add a day or a few and turn them into mini-vacations. We had so many amazing trips to places that we never would have gone to otherwise. Whereas prior to that, we always did the usual Disney/Universal or beach type stuff. Those years with lots of travel were some of the best times of our lives. And since my kid did well in school, they’d always excuse his absences and let him make up any schoolwork missed.
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Posted on 8/12/25 at 9:57 am to LSUfan4444
quote:
Sorry, I meant choosing a school that offered 8th grade
Oh, I have been looking into private school, not because of sports, but the easier path to making varsity would be a definite bonus.
Posted on 8/12/25 at 10:03 am to pelicanpride
What you described is rec ball.
Posted on 8/12/25 at 10:18 am to Tiger Ryno
quote:
What you described is rec ball.
I kept my boys in rec as long as possible. I’ve given more time and money to my local Little League than 99.9% of people. But at 14u, Little League isn’t a developmental option for my kid anymore. The gap is just too wide. He won’t grow, and it’s not much fun for him.
Posted on 8/12/25 at 10:23 am to Tiger Ryno
A VERY large chunk of travel ball parents, maybe the majority, are exhausted like me, but they continue on because it’s the only option for their kid to develop. After a certain point, rec doesn’t offer development anymore. Someone is going to make a lot of money when they figure out how to occupy that middle space between rec and travel ball. I have some ideas in my head, but I don’t have the money to implement them, and even if I did, I’m too damn tired.
Posted on 8/12/25 at 10:39 am to pelicanpride
This may be difficult for most people to grasp this take....but IYKYK
COVID and NIL changed the landscape for ALL sports, at ALL levels, from the Pros all the way down to High School..
COVID and NIL changed the landscape for ALL sports, at ALL levels, from the Pros all the way down to High School..
Posted on 8/12/25 at 11:40 am to pelicanpride
I put two sons through travel baseball. When we started, there was one, maybe two travel teams in each age group in our community, and only the best kids were invited to play. By the time we were done, there were more local travel teams in each age group than we ever had in the rec leagues.
All it accomplished was absorbing rec ball in our town and monetizing it through the travel model. The Dixie and Cal Ripken leagues in our community both folded up. We even had a controversy where a local high school coach was fired for favoring kids from a close relative's travel baseball academy. The whole model completely blew up in a very short period of time.
My kids were so burned out juggling travel ball with other sports that my oldest quit after his Sophomore season and my youngest decided to skip high school baseball altogether. My perspective is that it was a money racket that did more harm than good. Its a shame because once the local rec leagues went under, parents had no other choice for youth baseball.
All it accomplished was absorbing rec ball in our town and monetizing it through the travel model. The Dixie and Cal Ripken leagues in our community both folded up. We even had a controversy where a local high school coach was fired for favoring kids from a close relative's travel baseball academy. The whole model completely blew up in a very short period of time.
My kids were so burned out juggling travel ball with other sports that my oldest quit after his Sophomore season and my youngest decided to skip high school baseball altogether. My perspective is that it was a money racket that did more harm than good. Its a shame because once the local rec leagues went under, parents had no other choice for youth baseball.
Posted on 8/12/25 at 12:37 pm to Vacherie Saint
quote:
All it accomplished was absorbing rec ball in our town and monetizing it through the travel model. The Dixie and Cal Ripken leagues in our community both folded up. We even had a controversy where a local high school coach was fired for favoring kids from a close relative's travel baseball academy. The whole model completely blew up in a very short period of time.
My kids were so burned out juggling travel ball with other sports that my oldest quit after his Sophomore season and my youngest decided to skip high school baseball altogether. My perspective is that it was a money racket that did more harm than good. Its a shame because once the local rec leagues went under, parents had no other choice for youth baseball.
Boom. Another great synopsis of what makes Travel Ball culture inherently bad
Posted on 8/12/25 at 12:41 pm to pelicanpride
quote:So was it the impetus for the NIL?
100%. The beauty of high school sports is that it’s one of the only times in your life that you get to play for something bigger than yourself, just like Little League or Dixie All Stars. It’s a shame we’ve taken that from so many kids with these massive schools. Travel ball can’t replicate what you get playing with your classmates representing your school. Want to know why so many of today’s athletes hop in the transfer portal at the first sign of adversity? It’s because that’s what travel ball is like. We never taught them to be loyal to anything.
Poor kids had been getting paid all along.
This post was edited on 8/12/25 at 12:55 pm
Posted on 8/12/25 at 1:03 pm to Lgrnwd
so let me ask a question....is it travel ball culture that is bad or was it the local leagues putting out a terrible product that encouraged people to seek what they deem as a better alternative?
its basic supply and demand....if rec ball puts out just as good of a product(like yall claim) and is cheaper shouldnt it be thriving?
or are yall just going to blame culture for people to spend thousands more on something
and parent claim burnout every time their kid cant make the jump to the big field and falls behind or realizes how much work the other kids put in.
its basic supply and demand....if rec ball puts out just as good of a product(like yall claim) and is cheaper shouldnt it be thriving?
or are yall just going to blame culture for people to spend thousands more on something
and parent claim burnout every time their kid cant make the jump to the big field and falls behind or realizes how much work the other kids put in.
Posted on 8/12/25 at 2:03 pm to lsu777
quote:
is it travel ball culture that is bad or was it the local leagues putting out a terrible product that encouraged people to seek what they deem as a better alternative?
The idea behind travel ball isn’t bad. Rec league is a perfectly acceptable level of competition for most kids. Then you get into the socioeconomic of it. My hometown has produced state champions from very economically disadvantaged areas where travel ball isn’t the end all be all. But if you think travel ball is a way for your kid to “level up”, fine. At a young age, where growth spurts can seemingly happen overnight, what is the obsession with competition? You can get passed up quickly at the drop of a hat. I’ll asked a question that another poster didn’t answer…
What is your goal with travel ball? What is your desired endgame?
quote:
and parent claim burnout every time their kid cant make the jump to the big field and falls behind or realizes how much work the other kids put in.
Then you say this. This is exactly what I would expect a travel ball parent to say.
Posted on 8/12/25 at 2:07 pm to lsu777
so many people want to jazz up rec leagues and plainly ignore all the flaws and problems. people want to shite on the travel option without acknowledging all of the positives about it. its tiresome rehashing this constantly.
Posted on 8/12/25 at 2:44 pm to Vacherie Saint
quote:
By the time we were done, there were more local travel teams in each age group than we ever had in the rec leagues.
All it accomplished was absorbing rec ball in our town and monetizing it through the travel model.
This is what I don't really get about the travel ball model.
From age 8 to 13, it seems like the number of reps should be more important than traveling around to different states to play 4 games in some small podunk town.
With as many travel teams as there are now, wouldn't kids be better served by creating some sort of elevated rec league with all of the local travel teams and just play more games locally or get more practices in?
If there are 10 or so travel teams in New Orleans metro, for example, why don't these 10 teams just form a league and just keep playing each other?
Getting an extra game or practice in in a weekend would be better than spending 5 or so hours in a car driving all around the state or out of state to play in some tournament where you may not be guaranteed multiple games.
Or maybe this is how it operates in a lot of places, I don't know.
This post was edited on 8/12/25 at 2:45 pm
Posted on 8/12/25 at 2:44 pm to TexasTiger08
quote:
The idea behind travel ball isn’t bad. Rec league is a perfectly acceptable level of competition for most kids. Then you get into the socioeconomic of it. My hometown has produced state champions from very economically disadvantaged areas where travel ball isn’t the end all be all. But if you think travel ball is a way for your kid to “level up”, fine. At a young age, where growth spurts can seemingly happen overnight, what is the obsession with competition? You can get passed up quickly at the drop of a hat. I’ll asked a question that another poster didn’t answer…
i agree many kids shouldnt be playing travel ball but if you think travel isnt a way to level up than you havent been around high level teams.
quote:
At a young age, where growth spurts can seemingly happen overnight, what is the obsession with competition?
the obsession is because I have watched the kids and teams that play with and against the better teams improve at a much higher clip than they ever could in rec.
I coached my oldest in rec ball for 8 seasons, trust me, i understand this way more than you. the fact that you think you can just get passed up at a drop of a hat due to a growth spurt shows me that you really dont understand the skills involved.
let me guess....you think puberty just provides velo and bat speed like its some magic ferry putting velocity dust all over kids huh?
so i guess the 250 extra practices and 200 games dont make a difference huh? and thats assuming you only look at 10-14u.
if you dont think practice time or competition level matter....stick to teaching music.
quote:
What is your goal with travel ball?
the goal of travel ball is to allow kids with more opportunity for games and to allow them to play against peers of equal talent so that they are pushed.
quote:
What is your desired endgame?
have the chance to make the high school team where he will be going
how many time do i have to tell you that. I have told you personally 10 times in this thread
again do you think a rec kid could go make a team like southlake, or flower mound or prosper if they are only taking at most 15 in the class?
the answer is no and you know this.
quote:
Then you say this. This is exactly what I would expect a travel ball parent to say.
no dumbass it was the same when it was rec only 25+ years ago when i played. the big field weeds kids out and parents are delusional, especially parents of rec and AA travel kids and think their kid can handle the big field and if they quit its because burnout or a coach was mean etc
its not, your kid just becomes conscious of how good others are and how much work it takes and makes a decision.
or the other case I see alot is the kid claims burnout while he has a blonde hanging on his arm. that isnt burnout, thats liking spending time with her more than baseball....and thats ok, but dont claim burnout.
Posted on 8/12/25 at 2:48 pm to Vacherie Saint
quote:
My perspective is that it was a money racket that did more harm than good. Its a shame because once the local rec leagues went under, parents had no other choice for youth baseball.
Travel baseball has killed rec, and it’s a shame. I’m old enough to remember when Dixie was good. Kids stayed in league until 18, and the next year, you might see one pitching in college. If my kid could go back in time and play Dixie in my home league in the 90s, he would be a good player, but there wouldn’t be the type of gap that you see now at 14u.
What caused it? I think the creation of larger and larger high schools fueled a lot of it. It became so competitive to make varsity, that parents felt they needed the extra reps to give their kid a chance. I also think some rec leagues shot themselves in the foot with fair play rules that made it impossible to play competent baseball. Eventually, rec lost so much talent that you have no choice after a certain age.
The part that really hits me in the gut is when my kid has a tournament at a site that used to be an old Dixie or Little League field. You can still see the old plaques on the concession stand walls, and none of them go past the 2010s. Think about that - a park built for local kids open to anyone is now pay to play and filled with kids from an hour away. If Little League or Dixie is still thriving where y’all live take care of it and invest in it.
Posted on 8/12/25 at 2:51 pm to John Casey
quote:
From age 8 to 13, it seems like the number of reps should be more important than traveling around to different states to play 4 games in some small podunk town.
the only kids that do this are the ones that are extremely talented. very very very few teams do this unless its an end of the season destination tournament as a celebration of the season. 99% of nola teams dont leave nola, period.
quote:
With as many travel teams as there are now, wouldn't kids be better served by creating some sort of elevated rec league with all of the local travel teams and just play more games locally or get more practices in?
for the AA kids certainly but there is a reason those kids left rec to begin with. the rec leagues cater to kids that suck and have never played before and require equal playing time. Kids dont want to play with kids that suck
texastiger will say thats a parenting problem....sounds like something a music teacher would say.
quote:
If there are 10 or so travel teams in New Orleans metro, for example, why don't these 10 teams just form a league and just keep playing each other?
they do, again nola travel teams rarely leave nola.
carroltons best team will sometimes travel to BR or gulf port or maybe lafayette once a year, nothing more. Chalmette reign will do BR, renegades best team will do BR, the rest never leave other than traction nola which is a true national team
quote:
Getting an extra game or practice in in a weekend would be better than spending 5 or so hours in a car driving all around the state or out of state to play in some tournament where you may not be guaranteed multiple games.
you get 3 games no matter what but again....teams in nola dont leave nola. just like for the most part, teams in BR dont leave BR
lafayette teams mainly play either lafayette or Br. LC teams play beaumont to lafayette
there are 1 or 2 teams that are majors teams that travel to BR or houston in lafayette and LC areas.
99% of travel teams dont ever travel more than an hour except once a year
99% of teams in houston never leave houston, same with DFW.
Posted on 8/12/25 at 2:56 pm to lsu777
our rec league is pretty good in terms of player quality. The league we play at has rec and travel available. Some times kids will do travel in the spring or summer, and play rec in the fall, or might do rec in spring and fall and travel in the summer. Regardless, I feel like teams usually have 2 or 3 really good players, 3-4 mediocre players, and 2-3 bad players.
The issue I have is that rec leagues only allow for 3-4 practices before games start. Then they don't have any practices. You play 12 or so regular season games and then every team in the division plays in the double elimination tournament. Those are the only games that truly matter. The regular season games are basically live practice for the playoffs.
The issue I have is that rec leagues only allow for 3-4 practices before games start. Then they don't have any practices. You play 12 or so regular season games and then every team in the division plays in the double elimination tournament. Those are the only games that truly matter. The regular season games are basically live practice for the playoffs.
Posted on 8/12/25 at 3:09 pm to John Casey
quote:
With as many travel teams as there are now, wouldn't kids be better served by creating some sort of elevated rec league with all of the local travel teams and just play more games locally or get more practices in?
They pretty much do that in the Houston area. Most of the games aren’t more than an hour away. But I think you have the right idea. The reps are the most important thing. What really burns parents out is the tournament structure of two pool play games on Saturday, which often aren’t back-to-back, followed by a Sunday tournament that could last the entire day. What I would like to see are more academies where you can do practice only and there is a focus on local scrimmages .If you want to play tournaments, you could select the number of tournaments that your kid plays each season. Maybe you even select the weekends, so you can plan around your kid’s Little League schedule. The team might vary week to week. Who cares? Let’s say you had one of these academies in 5 different suburbs around Houston. That would give you enough kids to play AA and AAA tournaments and let parents pick which weekends they want to play. That model would work if it could ever get off the ground.
Posted on 8/12/25 at 4:32 pm to lsu777
]
Where did I say this didn’t matter?
Bro…you are a prick. Plain and simple.
Why are you so bent out of shape about this?
There’s over 500 high schools in class 6A and 5A combined in Texas. Are you trying to get your kid into one of those three?
We get it. Your kid is just better than them. They didn’t get burnt out, your boy made that arse quit.
quote:
if you dont think practice time or competition level matter....stick to teaching music.
Where did I say this didn’t matter?
quote:
but if you think travel isnt a way to level up than you havent been around high level teams.
quote:
I coached my oldest in rec ball for 8 seasons, trust me
quote:
shows me that you really dont understand the skills involved.
quote:
so i guess the 250 extra practices and 200 games dont make a difference huh?
quote:
you think puberty just provides velo and bat speed like its some magic ferry putting velocity dust all over kids huh?
Bro…you are a prick. Plain and simple.
quote:
how many time do i have to tell you that. I have told you personally 10 times in this thread
Why are you so bent out of shape about this?
quote:
again do you think a rec kid could go make a team like southlake, or flower mound or prosper if they are only taking at most 15 in the class?
There’s over 500 high schools in class 6A and 5A combined in Texas. Are you trying to get your kid into one of those three?
quote:
your kid just becomes conscious of how good others are and how much work it takes and makes a decision. or the other case I see alot is the kid claims burnout while he has a blonde hanging on his arm. that isnt burnout, thats liking spending time with her more than baseball....and thats ok, but dont claim burnout.
We get it. Your kid is just better than them. They didn’t get burnt out, your boy made that arse quit.
Posted on 8/12/25 at 4:35 pm to lsu777
quote:
texastiger will say thats a parenting problem....sounds like something a music teacher would say.
This is a weird correlation you’re trying to make.
We get it. Your kid is awesome and needs the reps so he can make Prosper’s varsity squad. He can’t waste time with the kid from the neighborhood that is less skilled.
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