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re: June 4, 1942 - The Battle of Midway
Posted on 6/4/24 at 4:42 pm to Darth_Vader
Posted on 6/4/24 at 4:42 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:That's a bit like arguing Antietam was the "turning point" of the Civil War.
But I’d argue against that. And my main argument is the Solomons Campaign
0
Posted on 6/4/24 at 5:05 pm to rmnldr
I was on a pacific campaign kick for pod casts and found “Kings and Generalsl. They did a week by week of WWI in the Pacific, plus 10 episodes leading up to wwii. They were 20+ min episodes. Perfect for my commute to work.
They the. condensed the Solomon campaign into one long episode. Recommend if you have time.
But our sheer ineptitude with surface fleet warfare early in the campaign was astonishing. But the marines on Guadalcanal fought through horrendous conditions and held their own against experienced jap forces.
LINK
They the. condensed the Solomon campaign into one long episode. Recommend if you have time.
But our sheer ineptitude with surface fleet warfare early in the campaign was astonishing. But the marines on Guadalcanal fought through horrendous conditions and held their own against experienced jap forces.
LINK
This post was edited on 6/4/24 at 5:20 pm
Posted on 6/4/24 at 5:12 pm to Ace Midnight
The Operations Room has a good video on Midway and a lot of content about the War in the Pacific:
Posted on 6/4/24 at 5:42 pm to tigeraddict
Love that series. I subscribed to the channel just for the updates.
Posted on 6/4/24 at 5:47 pm to CR4090
The Unauthorized History of the Pacific War Podcast is really good and highly recommended. I watch the YouTube channel as they show pictures and diagrams.
Also Drachinifel on YouTube is extremely detailed on his channel on ships from age of sail to WWII. He dives into wwi and wwii ships all the time. His knowledge is impressive.
Also Drachinifel on YouTube is extremely detailed on his channel on ships from age of sail to WWII. He dives into wwi and wwii ships all the time. His knowledge is impressive.
Posted on 6/4/24 at 6:01 pm to Junky
quote:
The Unauthorized History of the Pacific War Podcast is really good and highly recommended. I watch the YouTube channel as they show pictures and diagrams.
I listen to this every Saturday while I’m at my model desk. Interestingly enough, it was this podcast that changed my mind about Midway being the turning point of the war. Up until then, I’d heard this my whole life and had never questioned it. But they laid out a very logical case, backed up with facts, for Midway being a pivotal battle, but the Solomons being the real turning point of the war.
Posted on 6/4/24 at 6:04 pm to geauxtigers87
quote:
Ehh, I'm not sure if we have to abandon Australia. Japanese fleet (kido butai in particular) is still crippled from midway either way. Japanese were in no position to go on a major offensive again. If anything the war in the pacific is prolonged further
That’s why Guadalcanal was so important for them. Remember, they didn’t complete the airbase.
If Guadalcanal was fully established they could’ve easily cut any reinforcements coming through the Coral Sea to Australia from the air.
Posted on 6/4/24 at 6:20 pm to geauxtigers87
quote:
Nagumo and the Japanese leadership in general were kept off balance by the near constant attacks from the Americans. Midway strikes, torpedo strikes, B-17, B-26 all frayed the Japanese nerves. None of those American attacks were in vain.
Thank you for saying that! You nailed it!
Posted on 6/4/24 at 6:45 pm to Ace Midnight
ALso on June 4th... although 1944... The Allies took Rome Italy
June 6th over shadows these two events, but the importance of Midway cannot be understanded.
June 6th over shadows these two events, but the importance of Midway cannot be understanded.
Posted on 6/4/24 at 7:18 pm to Ace Midnight
I’ve spent a total of 20 months on Midway Island since 2018. I was there for 6 months last year.
It’s a beautiful island. I have a ton of pics. If I can remember how to post pics, I’ll post some tomorrow.
It’s a beautiful island. I have a ton of pics. If I can remember how to post pics, I’ll post some tomorrow.
Posted on 6/4/24 at 7:24 pm to Ace Midnight
Saw a live performance/play in college that detailed the battle at midway - was really impactful on my understanding of what was at stake and the odds the world faced. Unreal.
Posted on 6/4/24 at 7:27 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
That’s the point I was making. Our victory at Midway allowed us to on the offensive in the Solomons. Had we lost at Midway Guadalcanal would not have happened at lest for another year. So Midway paved the way for the Solomons. But it was in the Solomons where the true turning point of the war happened.
I’m just playing devils advocate here, using my dogshit work skills of root cause analysis…
If Midway was the reason Guadalcanal happened, and Guadalcanal was the turning point, wouldn’t that make Midway the ultimate root cause for success?
Posted on 6/4/24 at 7:33 pm to Czechessential
quote:
Gavabutu was a much overlooked turning point in the war
But at what cost?
Was winning Gavabutu worth it to Paula Prentiss? It ruined her honeymoon. Rock Wayne lost a leg and his (lost & found) son...BUT gained a wife presumably in Nurse Maggie. His old friend, new aide Burgess Meredith was traumatized by the naval action. And Kirk Douglas' suicide scouting mission that saved the day wasn't even rewarded with a citation for his trouble. Seems his rape of Rock's son's fiance not only was in very poor taste, the shame made her commit suicide.
Between Rock, Maggie and Kirk Douglas, I enjoyed all their (struggling) enunciation of "Gavabutu"; But for me Kirk wins ;-)
GREAT MOVIE. Obviously a fan as well. I would have been up for the sequel that was never green-lighted, 'Gavabutu II -- Who Needs Iwo?'
Posted on 6/4/24 at 7:34 pm to Frac the world
The victory at Midway stops the Japanese advance, puts them on the defensive, and breaks the myth of invinciblity surrounding them. Guadalcanal was a 6 month back and forth struggle where we break Japanese airpower and begin our advance across the Pacific which doesnt stop until we get in Tokyo Bay.
Midway, critically important no doubt, but Guadalcanal is where the tide truly turns in our favor in the Pacific
Midway, critically important no doubt, but Guadalcanal is where the tide truly turns in our favor in the Pacific
Posted on 6/4/24 at 7:37 pm to N2cars
Posted on 6/4/24 at 7:53 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
The Operations Room
I’m catching up on my operations room video. Currently watching the fall of Baghdad
Posted on 6/4/24 at 8:08 pm to Mstate
quote:
Even with those shitty torpedos we had
What was really impressive about Midway is that, for the most part, the US Navy still had inferior equipment compared to the IJN. Industrial production still hadn’t really kicked in yet, so all the whiz-bang stuff we’d be getting starting in 1943… Hellcats, Corsairs, Avengers, etc… weren’t on the front lines in quantity yet. Of the six Avengers deployed, five were lost. But it was still the most crushing naval battle in history.
Posted on 6/4/24 at 8:14 pm to Mstate
quote:
quote:
You can’t leave off the Battle of Britain.
Very true. Thank god the Germans stopped bombing the airfields
An inexplicable revised tactic.
Also inexplicably: allowing a cornered BEF escape Dunkirk.
Also inexplicably: almost simultaneously over-committing hundreds of thousands troops and mega-resources EAST in the ill-advisedly invasion of "ally" Soviet Union.
IF WW2 battles were a betting venue in Vegas, one might think The Fix was in.
Of course its in retrospect but it was..... almost as though Hitler didn't really want to win the war in the West while seeming to commit national suicide in the East.
Posted on 6/4/24 at 8:51 pm to Frac the world
quote:
I’m just playing devils advocate here, using my dogshit work skills of root cause analysis…
If Midway was the reason Guadalcanal happened, and Guadalcanal was the turning point, wouldn’t that make Midway the ultimate root cause for success?
Victory at Midway made the Solomons Campaign possible, that’s undeniable. But it was there in the Solomons where the tide finally and irrevocably turned in our favor.
Posted on 6/4/24 at 8:57 pm to AUriptide
quote:
Good video from US strategy and how it played out.
The best set of videos depicting a single battle I have seen. Its fantastic.
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