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re: Israel–Hamas War Discussion Thread: News Links On First Page
Posted on 10/13/23 at 7:41 pm to ABearsFanNMS
Posted on 10/13/23 at 7:41 pm to ABearsFanNMS
quote:
Considering the original inhabitants of the land were the Canaanite’s who no longer exist, not sure how Jews could be considered colonists since they have had a continuous presence for +3,000 years.
Correct me if I am wrong but prior to 1967 Jews did not rule Gaza except for when rule was given to Herod by the Romans until it was Christianized a period of 300 years or so out of 4 millennia.
3
Posted on 10/13/23 at 7:42 pm to LSUGrrrl
Very true. Amazing.
Posted on 10/13/23 at 7:43 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
It's a cool story and all but to fair a solid proportion of Israelis are European Jews who moved there after WW2.
If it was only the original inhabitants it would be a different conversation.
Doesn’t change the fact that you can call them colonizers and that Palestinians never ruled over that land (whereas Israel had and currently does).
Posted on 10/13/23 at 7:45 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
Correct me if I am wrong but prior to 1967 Jews did not rule Gaza except for when rule was given to Herod by the Romans until it was Christianized a period of 300 years or so out of 4 millennia.
Correct but Palestinians have never ruled over that land….never!
Add in the fact that Israel got attacked by all their neighbors and kicked the shite out of them….to the victors go the spoils. Guess I’d say be a better adversary and if you want to do terrorist shite then don’t expect mercy.
This post was edited on 10/13/23 at 7:51 pm
Posted on 10/13/23 at 7:47 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
The Hamas tunnel complexes are going to be harder to clear than Cu Chi. I suspect it will take weeks if not months. They are claimed to be about 300 MILES of tunnels and with the damage IDF has inflicted plus all the tricks and traps not to mention the Hamas soldiers, and human shields it is going to be slow dangerous going.
Nothing some FAE can’t solve…..except if the hostages are in there…..
Posted on 10/13/23 at 7:49 pm to ABearsFanNMS
quote:
Doesn’t change the fact that you can call them colonizers and that Palestinians never ruled over that land (whereas Israel had and currently does).
To be clear the only difference between the Jordanians and the Palestinians is that the Jordanians got their own state and the Palestinians never did.
You can make a valid argument that the Palestinians never accepted Israel as neighbors and therefore wouldn't have accepted a state anyway (which is true...), but making the statehood distinction doesn't change the fact that the Jordanians and the Palestinians (especially along the West Bank) are near identical.
All of those countries came about because of the end of WW1, for better or worse.
Posted on 10/13/23 at 8:01 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
the fact that the Jordanians and the Palestinians (especially along the West Bank) are near identical.
Seems odd that Jordan kicked the Palis out if they are so alike...
Posted on 10/13/23 at 8:02 pm to ABearsFanNMS
quote:
Correct but Palestinians have never ruled over that land….never!
I was just trying to clear up the rule and that it has been very limited in terms of the Jews and arguable that under Herod it was really still under Roman Rule.
I take it you aren't counting the post Oslo Accords rule by the PNA as Palestinian rule?
Posted on 10/13/23 at 8:02 pm to NYNolaguy1
That is a whole lot of world salad to say yeah theoretically they can’t be colonizers.
The real distinction between Israelians ans Palestinians was best summed up by Golda Meir when she said:
If the Palestines laid down their weapons there would be peace.
If Israel laid down their weapons there would be no Israel.
I think October 7th clearly illustrates that.
The real distinction between Israelians ans Palestinians was best summed up by Golda Meir when she said:
If the Palestines laid down their weapons there would be peace.
If Israel laid down their weapons there would be no Israel.
I think October 7th clearly illustrates that.
Posted on 10/13/23 at 8:05 pm to BuckyCheese
quote:
Seems odd that Jordan kicked the Palis out if they are so alike...
They are hated by all their “brothers”. They are the Arab gypsies that bring drama wherever they go. Why else will Egypt refuse to even consider taking in their refugees?
Posted on 10/13/23 at 8:05 pm to ABearsFanNMS
About an hour or so til our hero Steve!
Posted on 10/13/23 at 8:07 pm to ABearsFanNMS
quote:
That is a whole lot of world salad to say yeah theoretically they can’t be colonizers.
The real distinction between Israelians ans Palestinians was best summed up by Golda Meir when she said:
If the Palestines laid down their weapons there would be peace.
If Israel laid down their weapons there would be no Israel.
I think October 7th clearly illustrates that.
The term "colonizers" was never mine. In my mind Israel has as much right to be there as the other countries only because they were all formed the same way.
Posted on 10/13/23 at 8:09 pm to trussthetruzz
So does D-day for the mostly peaceful barbarian animals start in just under 2 hours?
Posted on 10/13/23 at 8:10 pm to ABearsFanNMS
quote:
Nothing some FAE can’t solve…..except if the hostages are in there…..
It still doesn't clear them, tunnels have to be "proofed" just like lanes in a minefield after a MICLIC. Cheaper and just as effective if you have access to a tunnel mouth is using a dust initiation charge. I do tend to look at these problems from an Engineer/Sapper POV vs a Chair Force POV.
Posted on 10/13/23 at 8:11 pm to trussthetruzz
Steve has arisen! Like a herald of boom.
This post was edited on 10/13/23 at 8:15 pm
Posted on 10/13/23 at 8:12 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
Cheaper and just as effective if you have access to a tunnel mouth is using a dust initiation charge. I do tend to look at these problems from an Engineer/Sapper POV vs a Chair Force POV.
Even cheaper: 1 million rabid gophers that haven't eaten in a couple weeks.
Posted on 10/13/23 at 8:14 pm to Obtuse1
The Jews have been in Canaan/Palestine/Israel longer than the Iroquois were in New York. They belong there.
Posted on 10/13/23 at 8:17 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
It's a cool story and all but to fair a solid proportion of Israelis are European Jews who moved there after WW2.
Most did not leave by true choice including being pushed out by Christians. The mosque the muslims freak out about was built after jewish temples (6 or 7 centuries after Jesus’s birth) and during arab muslim occupation. Jewish people accepted original division plan while muslims rejected it and waged war inside & outside to destroy Israel. They later used the rejected plan to declare being an independent state.
Current “occupation”
1988 PLO finally decides to accept original UN division plan 40 years after rejecting it to wage war which is now the basis for state of palestine and for being occupied. This also gave Jordan a way out of giving West Bank residents citizenship. Jordan then renounced claims to West Bank which it had annexed in 1950 and revoked the Jordanian citizenships it had granted them.
PLO: We demand a 40 year do over.
We now except that original offer after 40 years of trying to exterminate the jews even as we don’t have control over the area, cannot govern it, and include a vague reference to accepting 1967 UN resolution areas that we and other arab countries also didn’t accept originally to let UN imply our acknowledgment of Israel as we will not do it in our official 40 year belated acceptance of the division plan.
UN: accepted. Israel is now an occupying force.
Posted on 10/13/23 at 8:17 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
t's a cool story and all but to fair a solid proportion of Israelis are European Jews who moved there after WW2.
If it was only the original inhabitants it would be a different conversation.
Why would it be a different conversation?
The United Kingdom is not a country of the original inhabitants. That island has seen waves after wave of people come in and out of power.
Mexico isn’t a nation of the original inhabitants. The Aztecs weren’t indigenous to the Central Valley of Mexico. They arrived there as wanderers and took over.
People come, people go. The border between france and Germany is where it is today because of how wars and conflicts and waves of migration have resolved. And the international community has accepted that resolution.
The international community created Israel and it has defended itself against invasion. It is a nation of many different people, languages and ethnic groups. Like all other nations.
Nothing is static, and no one is entitled to anything. What matters is do you want to build stability or chaos. Israel is a nation building state at this moment in time and Hamas is not.
Posted on 10/13/23 at 8:17 pm to BayouBengal51
Steve going hard af right now.
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