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re: Is anyone else not pushing their kids to attend college?
Posted on 5/8/24 at 7:57 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 5/8/24 at 7:57 am to SlowFlowPro
This board has become increasingly blue collar/low end white collar in the last decade
1
Posted on 5/8/24 at 7:59 am to FLBooGoTigs1
quote:
Maybe an apprentice but all the electricians at my production faculties make > than 100k easy.
are you in Louisiana?
but lets look at florida
a journeyman, (usually takes 4 years) makes on average $66k with the 90% making a little over 82k
see this is the problem with this board, they see the electrician who works in the plants or huge production facilities and how much overtime they get and think...that aint so bad...dudes making 100k a year. then they think all electricians make that.
its so stupid.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 8:01 am to NIH
Yes. Older and more blue collar.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 8:01 am to Hu_Flung_Pu
quote:
Trade school is only valuable if you plan on making your own business.
Maybe it's different up here with the unions, but I know hundreds of guys in the field in various trades doing well. I'd say $100-$125k (plus good benefits and free training). It's probably best in the pipe trades or something like a millwright, I'm not quite as sure about a rough carpenter or brick/tile guy.
This post was edited on 5/8/24 at 8:02 am
Posted on 5/8/24 at 8:03 am to thedogman
Most of what was called trade school is labeled as community college. It’s all under the same roof even though you can major in anything from welding, instrumentation, to preparation for a 4 year college degree. So yes your son will likely have to attend some form of post secondary education even if it’s an apprenticeship.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 8:04 am to thedogman
I’m glad I still have 7 years with my oldest. He’s an extremely bright kid with excellent grades and will likely be able to get a decent amount of scholarship money, but I often wonder what the model will be in the near future. It doesn’t seem sustainable at the rate it’s currently going. I also wonder if a lot of the stuff he’s interested in won’t be eventually replaced/significantly altered with AI.
This post was edited on 5/8/24 at 8:06 am
Posted on 5/8/24 at 8:05 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
And I'll re-iterate, the people who have the mental ability to run one of those businesses could have gone to college and run any sort of business, many of which have much higher margins than trades.
The last time I weighed into one of these I tried to explain that in great detail, and even added in that trades are a great pathway to people who have the innate ability but had shitty circumstances growing up that prevented something like a normal/college path to management/ownership. But the people on this board talking about sending kids to college likely did not frick up their kids so much trades are the best (only?) path to this sort of life success.
This is actually why I theorize your highly skilled trades are losing population even though the demand is high. Those guys who were, for example, insanely smart carpenters in the past don't slip through the cracks as often now and get the opportunity to go to college and apply their mental ability elsewhere. Even when carpentry is in high demand with a low supply of labor, it's still not going to have the margins of other economic output.
quote:
And I'll re-iterate, the people who have the mental ability to run one of those businesses could have gone to college and run any sort of business, many of which have much higher margins than trades.
The last time I weighed into one of these I tried to explain that in great detail, and even added in that trades are a great pathway to people who have the innate ability but had shitty circumstances growing up that prevented something like a normal/college path to management/ownership. But the people on this board talking about sending kids to college likely did not frick up their kids so much trades are the best (only?) path to this sort of life success.
This is actually why I theorize your highly skilled trades are losing population even though the demand is high. Those guys who were, for example, insanely smart carpenters in the past don't slip through the cracks as often now and get the opportunity to go to college and apply their mental ability elsewhere. Even when carpentry is in high demand with a low supply of labor, it's still not going to have the margins of other economic output.
exactly. now dont get me wrong...owning a company is great and amazing money for those that make it.
but something like 60-70% flop because the person running it isnt smart enough in the business side of things to make it work.
and for some reason this board has a huge issue with understanding statistics. If there are 10 plumbing companies in a city of 200k how many more do you think there can be before the market is over saturated? and how many people work for those companies who never become a business owner and are close to 60 having to crawl into attics or under houses in July?
frick all that
I have done both in my position in the plant, i have contractors working for me daily...ask any of them if they would rather have a job working inside in the AC all day and they will tell you yes.
this sums up most blue collar workers
LINK
Posted on 5/8/24 at 8:12 am to Bunk Moreland
quote:
Maybe it's different up here with the unions, but I know hundreds of guys in the field in various trades doing well. I'd say $100-$125k (plus good benefits and free training). It's probably best in the pipe trades or something like a millwright, I'm not quite as sure about a rough carpenter or brick/tile guy.
what trades?
yall MFers will believe anything wont you?
[link=(The average Union Electrician salary in Michigan is $53,222 as of April 24, 2024, but the range typically falls between $46,221 and $61,534. ]LINK[/link]
quote:
The estimate average salary for UA Local Union employees is around $83,414 per year, or the hourly rate of UA Local Union rate is $40. The highest earners in the top 75th percentile are paid over $95,442. Individual salaries will vary depending on the job, department, and location, as well as the employee’s level of education, certifications, and additional skills.
quote:
According to salary.com, as of March 26, 2024, the average salary for a Millwright III in Michigan is $71,944. As of February 26, 2024, the average salary for a Millwright in Ann Arbor, Michigan is $66,220, with a typical range of $57,063–$76,269. As of March 26, 2024, the average salary for a Millwright II in Michigan is $62,783, with a typical range of $53,919–$72,276
quote:
much does a Millwright III make in Michigan? The average Millwright III salary in Michigan is $72,134 as of April 24, 2024, but the range typically falls between $63,108 and $81,881.
so yea your guys might make 100-125k with lots of overtime. like 500 hours of OT a year.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 8:13 am to lsu777
quote:
in LA the median for a plumber is 61k. the 90% is 77k. electrician is ~54k & ~70k HVAC- $47k & $63k welder is $44k & $57k even a welder 2 is only 10k more, welder 3 is 63k & 80k
The much maligned communications major:
Median is 57k, 90% is 85k
Posted on 5/8/24 at 8:14 am to Dawgfanman
quote:
The much maligned communications major:
Median is 57k, 90% is 85k
and gets to work in AC all day, not put his body through hell and actually has a path for advancement into management if they would like.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 8:15 am to lsu777
Also for all the people who think that they're saving their kids from being around terrible people like liberals in college, Blue collar work is full of drug addicts and hardcore alcoholics who aren't going to be setting the best example if your kid wants to be social with his co-workers. When you move into the more higher paying and specialized areas, you see less of the druggies and more child support payments.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 8:21 am to thedogman
I would keep your kids eyes on going to college as long as possible. Otherwise they will not strive in school the next few years. Don’t let them think that is going to be ok. Then when it gets to nitty gritty you can have a talk.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 8:26 am to lsu777
quote:
his board is truely ignorant as frick about the trades, how hard they are, how hard it is to open a business in them etc etc
For sure. I work in the oil industry. We have plenty of workers with no college degree making $200k+. We even have a few with college degrees that choose to do the same "blue collar" type work making that salary earlier than they would in any other position they could get.
Several things are clearly evident. Those with degrees, even when they have nothing to do with the job, seem to move up to the high paying gig much faster. Those with degrees have opportunities to move to the "white collar" side of the company making similar money with less time investment. Those with specialized degrees (engineering, etc.) will be making that same income in a 10 year time frame with 1,000 times better work life balance.
There are exceptions for non degree holders to exceed what I've stated. And we have plenty of degree holders who are useless. But overall, it's a tougher road for those without degrees in my industry and many, many others.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 8:28 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Also for all the people who think that they're saving their kids from being around terrible people like liberals in college, Blue collar work is full of drug addicts and hardcore alcoholics who aren't going to be setting the best example if your kid wants to be social with his co-workers. When you move into the more higher paying and specialized areas, you see less of the druggies and more child support payments.
exactly. rather my kid be around a bunch of successful liberals than those degenerate fricks. Talking about guys who all they talk about after lunch is "cant wait to get off and grab a couple tall boys for the way home"
watched the youtube cartoon "Refined" and it gives a good depiction of what average blue collar worker is.
if that is what you want your kids to be....more power to you. but dont complain about Louisiana being uneducated and falling behind other states
not sure when this board turned into blue collar central but this notion that the trades are the last place where freedom rings and its a bunch of good ole boys just trying to make a dollar for their family came from.....but it is so false its not even funny.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 8:31 am to lsu777
quote:
not sure when this board turned into blue collar central
The 2016 election and it really ramped up during QAnon.
Boomers discovered memes and flocked to right-leaning message boards
Posted on 5/8/24 at 8:31 am to lsu777
quote:
Talking about guys who all they talk about after lunch is "cant wait to get off and grab a couple tall boys for the way home"
More often than not, that’s what I’m sitting at lunch and longing for myself.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 8:35 am to thedogman
People want to bash college degrees over trades but never speak of the working conditions/environment and often lack of retirement, Healthcare and PTO of said trades.
The hell with working in an attic all day in August in south Louisiana, cleaning out a septic tanks, unclogging tampons every month in the projects.
The hell with working in an attic all day in August in south Louisiana, cleaning out a septic tanks, unclogging tampons every month in the projects.
This post was edited on 5/8/24 at 8:57 am
Posted on 5/8/24 at 8:44 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
The 2016 election
100% fricked the board up. I cant even go on PT any more....its a damn cult over there.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 8:46 am to Dragula
quote:
People want to bash college degrees over trades but never speak of the working conditions/environment and often lack of retirement, Healthcare and PTO of said trades.
The hell with working in an attic all day in August in south Louisiana, cleaning out a septic tants, unclogging tampos every month in the projects.
Everyone in this thread bitching about the trades continually uses residential construction analogies to make their point. I will not push my kids into trades within service or residential construction but the money within commercial construction is there and will continue to grow. Most commercial subcontractors will pay and train you to get licensed.. our supers arent working foreman and make good money 70-125k depending on experience and time they've been with us. We've brought in two supers to be PM's in the past couple of years from the field but most of our guys want to stay in the field because the headache of management outweighs them supervising in the elements because they really dont do a whole lot besides layout.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 8:51 am to BrianFantana
And you’ll be working 60-70 hrs a week with the contractor
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