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Started By
Message
re: In Louisiana, you need twice the minimum wage to afford a 2-bedroom apartment
Posted on 6/27/19 at 11:20 am to RogerTheShrubber
Posted on 6/27/19 at 11:20 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Minimum wage isn't getting the government out of it.
The idea should be to move these people up the ladder, not keep adjusting the ladder.
Considering you still maintain almost nobody is making minimum way then within that position moving the min wage up would not change much of anything.
I am all about helping people with upward mobility. The issue that I see and have already articulated (in my very first post) is if you wave a wand and every low wage worker has the resume to get a much higher paying jobs where do these jobs come from? Are there millions of long term unfilled jobs sitting around? I find it hard to believe and don't feel like researching and nobody else has bothered to do it to refute my initial point.
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Posted on 6/27/19 at 11:21 am to Cousin Key
quote:
These employers don't pay taxes too?
Income tax? No
Posted on 6/27/19 at 11:22 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Raise the wage high enough to end all benefits, hello automation.
What's that wage though? This isn't near as simple a discussion as you're making it out to be.
Posted on 6/27/19 at 11:23 am to TheCaterpillar
quote:
I get what you're saying, but that requires less-than-horrific credit and a downpayment. These adults making minimum wage surely don't have either.
If dedicated to bettering themselves on minimum wage they can catch two minimum wage jobs at thirty hours per week, a bicycle ride away from where they live. They can save the money from their extra 20 hours a week and after 1 year, their is their down payment.
They can also go to their bank and get a $500 secured credit card. If they use it for about $40 per month, then pay it off, their credit will be fine. This is in addition to paying their rent, water and electric bills on time.
It can be done.
Posted on 6/27/19 at 11:26 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
In fact I've said they do exist, just not among anyone I know.
OK, so you were not inferring that don't exist when you said you didn't know them and asking if anyone else knew them? If you weren't then it was not at all germane to the discussion. I haven't read enough of your posts to know you were prone to non-sequitur, duly noted. That said if you notice I ask you quite a bit in this thread to nail down something I wasn't sure what you meant and had to guess at, almost every time you avoided these questions for me this simply means you weren't sure where I was going (or fully sure) and was afraid to nail the specific item down.
I think I have played fairly and attempted to address every point openly.
Posted on 6/27/19 at 11:27 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
The recent outrage over this is kinda funny. I'll bet most people who support this $15 national min wage don't know a single person over 25 who makes min wage.
I would say I don’t know anyone of any age working for minimum wage. The HS kids who scan my groceries make $12-$14 per hour to start. Some of the worst jobs in town could be city jobs that start at $15 have a decent benefit package and a pension. It’s market driven and not govt mandated here, but we also don’t have an endless supply of untrained/uneducated labor either.
Posted on 6/27/19 at 11:31 am to goofball
quote:
If you live in Louisiana, you need to make 2.3 times the state's minimum wage to afford a two-bedroom apartment in the state, according to a new report.
Then get a one bedroom apartment, or a roommate, or a really crazy idea move in with a relative and split expenses and taking care of children (which if you can't afford, you should not have especially since medicaid covers birth control), and go to night school, CC, votech, etc to better yourself so that you will not be making minimum wage forever.
Posted on 6/27/19 at 11:32 am to Cousin Key
quote:
These employers don't pay taxes too? So basically you want the low income workers to receive a "living wage," you just don't want to be part of the group of tax payers financing it.
You haven't been following my debate in this thread at all. I have never advocated for or against some specific or amorphous minimum wage hike. I have been debating the lack of validity of other people's arguments not to raise it. Think of my discussions as Socratic in nature I am trying to draw out others arguments, not make one myself.
Obviously employers pay taxes as well BUT they still get a more direct benefit from the employee than the general taxpayer does. Do you think this is incorrect?
Posted on 6/27/19 at 11:34 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Good luck with that choice
There are many who choose to work fewer hours in order not to lose their benefits.
Raise the wage high enough to end all benefits, hello automation.
I didn't make the argument someone else did, I was just pointing out how I differed from there opinion based on their proffer. I never said it was a binary choice and could make an argument either way.
Posted on 6/27/19 at 11:37 am to goofball
I don’t think minimum wage is meant to support the Average two bedroom apartment. In fact I would think it would imply that it would support at most the cheapest studio apartment since it’s a Minimum wage
This post was edited on 6/27/19 at 11:38 am
Posted on 6/27/19 at 11:37 am to Obtuse1
quote:
Obviously employers pay taxes as well BUT they still get a more direct benefit from the employee than the general taxpayer does. Do you think this is incorrect?
Sure, but that's not why we subsidize workers.
You'll never be able to get rid of taxpayer benefits. I listed one reason above.
Posted on 6/27/19 at 11:39 am to Obtuse1
quote:
Obviously employers pay taxes as well BUT they still get a more direct benefit from the employee than the general taxpayer does. Do you think this is incorrect?
I don’t think this is accurate. The employer gets the benefit of the employees labor. That doesn’t infer any kind of responsibility on the employer beyond marking sure the employee gets paid on time and has safe working conditions.
If you pay a guy to cut your lawn, you’re not responsible for making sure that guy is earning enough to eat.
This post was edited on 6/27/19 at 11:40 am
Posted on 6/27/19 at 11:40 am to goofball
Capitalism....either get your shite together or suffer.
Posted on 6/27/19 at 11:45 am to Gatorbait2008
quote:
Capitalism....either get your shite together or suffer.
What's a better system?
Posted on 6/27/19 at 11:48 am to StupidBinder
quote:
I don’t think this is accurate. The employer gets the benefit of the employees labor. That doesn’t infer any kind of responsibility on the employer beyond marking sure the employee gets paid on time and has safe working conditions.
If you pay a guy to cut your lawn, you’re not responsible for making sure that guy is earning enough to eat.
Again, assuming this is a binary situation as set up by another poster and I responded who gets more direct benefit the employer or the taxpayer?
Just answer that question. Again don't argue it isn't binary I didn't form the argument and I have not said it was binary only arguendo that it was since that was the way it was set up.
Posted on 6/27/19 at 11:51 am to Obtuse1
quote:
Obviously employers pay taxes as well BUT they still get a more direct benefit from the employee than the general taxpayer does. Do you think this is incorrect?
You can think democrats and democratic voters for this. If we had elected Herman Cain in 2012 then corporate and personal income taxes would be 9%.
Posted on 6/27/19 at 11:53 am to Obtuse1
quote:
Again, assuming this is a binary situation as set up by another poster and I responded who gets more direct benefit the employer or the taxpayer?
Just answer that question. Again don't argue it isn't binary I didn't form the argument and I have not said it was binary only arguendo that it was since that was the way it was set up.
Why not provide training for low income workers to better themselves instead of constantly changing the wage?
Posted on 6/27/19 at 11:56 am to WeeWee
quote:
If we had elected Herman Cain in 2012
El oh el
Posted on 6/27/19 at 11:58 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
What's a better system?
There isn't one unless you can rid us of some of our pesky human nature.
However, because of that human nature, it has to have checks on it to be even remotely equitable.
It's like many of my die-hard free-market friends who now have a ragin' hardon for the Chinese et al tariffs. I keep reminding them I have been calling for them for more than a decade but it was a pinko liberal idea to them at the time.
Posted on 6/27/19 at 12:01 pm to WeeWee
quote:
You can think democrats and democratic voters for this. If we had elected Herman Cain in 2012 then corporate and personal income taxes would be 9%.
I have no idea what that had to do with what you quoted of mine.
I will say if that had occurred we would now know what it is like to be on the far right of the Laffer Curve.
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