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re: In Louisiana, you need twice the minimum wage to afford a 2-bedroom apartment
Posted on 6/27/19 at 12:03 pm to Obtuse1
Posted on 6/27/19 at 12:03 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
be even remotely equitable.
Entirely subjective.
quote:
It's like many of my die-hard free-market friends who now have a ragin' hardon for the Chinese et al tariffs.
Absolutely horrible idea. As bad as the minimum wage.
This post was edited on 6/27/19 at 12:04 pm
1
Posted on 6/27/19 at 12:07 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
Again, assuming this is a binary situation as set up by another poster and I responded who gets more direct benefit the employer or the taxpayer? Just answer that question.
Again don't argue it isn't binary I didn't form the argument and I have not said it was binary only arguendo that it was since that was the way it was set up.
Obviously an employer gets the benefit of an employees labor. He paid for it.
Now tell me why that’s relevant. Why does that mean the employer is obligated to pay more than what they agreed on when the employee was hired?
It doesn’t matter that someone else set up the framework. Presumably you responded with your own thoughts, so you should be able to explain your rationale.
This post was edited on 6/27/19 at 12:08 pm
Posted on 6/27/19 at 12:13 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Why not provide training for low income workers to better themselves instead of constantly changing the wage?
I addressed this the last time you brought it up.
I am all for this.
I say there is not the surplus of open jobs to accept the new supply if we were very effective at developing skills.
Now, this does border on some really complex analysis.
Would the excess supply possibly stimulate new businesses opening or new expansion? That can only be GUESSED about, the only way to know is to experiment.
There is, of course, the issue of getting taxpayers to pay for the experiment.
It also doesn't say where the people are going to come from to fill the low wage vacancies. Robots? Have more babies? Tap the Mexican and Central American labor pool?
The whole labor displacing automation is a very real issue we will have to attack at some point.
Posted on 6/27/19 at 12:15 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
I say there is not the surplus of open jobs to accept the new supply if we were very effective at developing skills.
Skilled labor shortage critical.
quote:
It also doesn't say where the people are going to come from to fill the low wage vacancies. Robots? Have more babies? Tap the Mexican and Central American labor pool?
Interesting fact. Lower labor supply usually causes wages to rise.
Right now, we're putting downward pressure on unskilled labor with mass immigration.
This post was edited on 6/27/19 at 12:18 pm
Posted on 6/27/19 at 12:24 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Entirely subjective.
Sure but the ONLY final chapter to unchecked capitalism is a very few living opulent lives, a very few living what might be considered a middle-class life and the 90+ percent living like sharecroppers in the early 1900s. It isn't like we haven't seen it before.
Tariffs have their place unless EVERYONE plays by the same set of rules. But you may be an IP is fair game kinda guy and are OK with currency manipulation, I dunno.
Posted on 6/27/19 at 12:40 pm to Obtuse1
The employer matches what the employee pays in taxes, then pays suta and futa, what you the employee doesn't pay. Then add shite like ACA, and you are up to your arse in paying the government. Many small business got fricked under Obama.
Let's say I open a grocery in North Baton Rouge. Not only will all my employees be starting out on a high wage, so will every business I buy product from. So your cost of goods goes up. The cost of doing business goes up.
Add in theft, insurance and utilities and there is no point in starting a business.
Let's say I open a grocery in North Baton Rouge. Not only will all my employees be starting out on a high wage, so will every business I buy product from. So your cost of goods goes up. The cost of doing business goes up.
Add in theft, insurance and utilities and there is no point in starting a business.
This post was edited on 6/27/19 at 12:41 pm
Posted on 6/27/19 at 12:41 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Skilled labor shortage critical.
Says 6.7m jobs which is less than 1/3rd of the workers I am talking about. I never said it wouldn't work for some and remember I am all for the effort.
quote:
Lower labor supply usually causes wages to rise.
Right now, we're putting downward pressure on unskilled labor with mass immigration.
Yes I am aware of the first part.
OK so cut mass migration out. Wages rise so now we are back up to people earning $15 at minimum and prices on goods and services go up and it is the same revolving door we were talking about earlier. However, I am all for securing the border but don't see it as directly germane to the topic here. I say that since the scope of this discussion has already grown to proportions far beyond the scope of a tOT thread.
Posted on 6/27/19 at 12:49 pm to goofball
quote:
minimum wage
quote:
average two-bedroom apartment
The OP's whole post is based on a false comparison. Who expected a person earning minimum wage to live in the "average" apartment? If you make below average wages, chances are you live in below average housing, and pay less than average prices for rent. (of course, a large percentage of minimum wage earners are not the sole earner in the family, and it is often teenagers who don't buy housing anyway)
Posted on 6/27/19 at 12:51 pm to Obtuse1
Just need people to go into skilled labor.
Stop making a plumber or a mechanic seem like a failure. These dudes charge crazy labor because there aren't enough of them.
I had some transmission issues in my vehicle. Some places won't even do transmission work because they have no one to do it. Dealerships can be backed up months on transmission work because they themselves have just 1 guy that does it.
There def is a shortage on skilled labor and why they charge out the arse in labor.
Stop making a plumber or a mechanic seem like a failure. These dudes charge crazy labor because there aren't enough of them.
I had some transmission issues in my vehicle. Some places won't even do transmission work because they have no one to do it. Dealerships can be backed up months on transmission work because they themselves have just 1 guy that does it.
There def is a shortage on skilled labor and why they charge out the arse in labor.
Posted on 6/27/19 at 12:52 pm to goofball
If you’re working minimum wage, why do you need two bedrooms? You shouldn’t have a family or anyone depending on you.
Also why do you have a two bedroom to yourself? Get a roommate to help oddest the cost
Also why do you have a two bedroom to yourself? Get a roommate to help oddest the cost
Posted on 6/27/19 at 12:55 pm to dgnx6
First quote some text you are referring to especially in a thread like this so someone doesn't have to guess what you are responding to.
You might want to check with your accountant about that first phrase, either you misspoke or if you are an employer I think your accountant is scamming you. Nobody said it was easy starting a small business if you aren't well capitalized and have a solid business plan life is unlikely to be fun. I know from personal experiance.
Again, you are responding to the binary argument and that is as far down that road as I have gone.
Do you believe the employer should bear the burden of subsidizing their employees or the taxpayer via the government.
quote:
The employer matches what the employee pays in taxes, then pays suta and futa, what you the employee doesn't pay. Then add shite like ACA, and you are up to your arse in paying the government. Many small business got fricked under Obama.
You might want to check with your accountant about that first phrase, either you misspoke or if you are an employer I think your accountant is scamming you. Nobody said it was easy starting a small business if you aren't well capitalized and have a solid business plan life is unlikely to be fun. I know from personal experiance.
Again, you are responding to the binary argument and that is as far down that road as I have gone.
Do you believe the employer should bear the burden of subsidizing their employees or the taxpayer via the government.
Posted on 6/27/19 at 12:58 pm to Oilfieldbiology
quote:
you’re working minimum wage, why do you need two bedrooms? You shouldn’t have a family or anyone depending on you.
This too. I make way more than that and don't have a two bedroom. I rent a side by side with 1 bed and 1 bath.
Posted on 6/27/19 at 12:59 pm to Obtuse1
quote:neither - able bodied and minded people should survive on their own.
Do you believe the employer should bear the burden of subsidizing their employees or the taxpayer via the government.
Posted on 6/27/19 at 1:02 pm to choupiquesushi
quote:
neither - able bodied and minded people should survive on their own.
What about the people that aren't able bodied and able minded?
Posted on 6/27/19 at 1:11 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
Do you believe the employer should bear the burden of subsidizing their employees or the taxpayer via the government.
False Dilemma/False Dichotomy
This fallacy has a few other names: “black-and-white fallacy,” “either-or fallacy,” “false dichotomy,” and “bifurcation fallacy.” This line of reasoning fails by limiting the options to two when there are in fact more options to choose from.
Posted on 6/27/19 at 1:19 pm to Powerman
quote:those are the ones we should help
What about the people that aren't able bodied and able minded?
Posted on 6/27/19 at 1:59 pm to choupiquesushi
quote:
neither - able bodied and minded people should survive on their own.
Note I was arguing a binary position I cornered another poster in.
Posted on 6/27/19 at 2:07 pm to goofball
So two people, making minimum wage, can afford a two bedroom apartment?
Posted on 6/27/19 at 2:13 pm to Cousin Key
quote:
False Dilemma/False Dichotomy
This fallacy has a few other names: “black-and-white fallacy,” “either-or fallacy,” “false dichotomy,” and “bifurcation fallacy.” This line of reasoning fails by limiting the options to two when there are in fact more options to choose from.
If you read and comprehended my full contribution in this thread you would have noticed I backed another poster into this dilemma. It was purposeful on my part. If you approach my posts in this thread like I am arguing for something you are already a step behind.
I am smart enough to realize this concept is well beyond the scope of a tOT thread, my minor in econ and probably every tOT poster. This is a level of economics Nobel laureates in economics could and have pondered and argued over their entire careers. Life rarely follows the simple rules of macro econ, just like something so seemingly simple is Veblen goods. Macroeconomics works great until you introduce people.
Posted on 6/27/19 at 2:14 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
So two people, making minimum wage, can afford a two bedroom apartment?
Actually, if you accept the numbers of the OP's link then no they can not. However, I think it serves only as a comparison since an "average" 2 BR apt is rather unrealistic for even a 2 MW family. Low-end wages shouldn't be expected to afford anything more than low-end housing.
This post was edited on 6/27/19 at 2:17 pm
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