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Message
re: if women can abort their children, why can't men opt out of parenthood?
Posted on 11/21/16 at 10:23 am to slackster
Posted on 11/21/16 at 10:23 am to slackster
quote:
No. You seem to have deliberately ignored the point of my rebuttal.
No, I must have misunderstood it. I can understand the issues a man has with the current system. What I cannot understand is how the solution in the OP is either A) more equitable or B) better for society?
Well, we've already talked about why it would be more equitable. To some extent that seems obvious. There was a famous second wave feminist who recently died and argued exactly the OP's point of view. I can't place her name right now, but the point that this isn't a new idea is probably the bigger point.
RE: better for society? I have already argued that as well. For starters because we've tried the present system and seen it expand child poverty and single parent outcomes. In general I think it would lead to more thoughtful decisions and better parented children as a result.
2
Posted on 11/21/16 at 10:24 am to slackster
I kind of understand your point, but your also forceing someone to go through something major that they don't want to go through. Birth of a child hurts worse than anything I've even done in my life, joyish yes, but if it wasn't my choice to go through it, you couldn't pay me enough to go through that pain.
But at the same time to the OP it can be flip flopped, if a man can walk out of a child life, why can't a woman choose to do what she wants with the baby. To a certant degree.
Me and my child has been ran off on, and 5 years later when he wanted to have something to do with the kid, his rights were terminated, and my husband adopted her, and any trace of him has completely been wiped out. They even give you a new birth certificate as the adopted father was the one there at the birth like he is the bio father. She is 11 now, I don't regret it. But I bet he does.
But at the same time to the OP it can be flip flopped, if a man can walk out of a child life, why can't a woman choose to do what she wants with the baby. To a certant degree.
Me and my child has been ran off on, and 5 years later when he wanted to have something to do with the kid, his rights were terminated, and my husband adopted her, and any trace of him has completely been wiped out. They even give you a new birth certificate as the adopted father was the one there at the birth like he is the bio father. She is 11 now, I don't regret it. But I bet he does.
Posted on 11/21/16 at 10:24 am to slackster
N/M.
you further explained.
you further explained.
This post was edited on 11/21/16 at 10:26 am
Posted on 11/21/16 at 10:28 am to molsusports
quote:it's definitely obvious. Females can end their obligation as a parent. Men don't have that right.
To some extent that seems obvious.
quote:This doesn't deserve to addressed.
better for society?
Posted on 11/21/16 at 10:57 am to molsusports
quote:
RE: better for society? I have already argued that as well.
You have. I disagree with your sentiment and think the opposite would be true, but you have articulated why you think it would be better. I should have addressed the OP directly.
quote:
Well, we've already talked about why it would be more equitable.
A woman can back out via a medical procedure that ends the life if a child. You want a man to be able to back out by signing a paper. That's not in the same stratosphere.
Preventing an unwanted pregnancy is equitable where and when it matters - during intercourse. Even if I accept that abortion is the law of the land and swings the control to the woman at that point, this opt out only compounds the problem IMO.
Posted on 11/21/16 at 11:09 am to GreatLakesTiger24
quote:
if the man doesn't want the kid,
1. wear a condom
2. don't have sex
3. get a vasectomy
4. pull out
four options if you don't want to have kids or pay child support
This post was edited on 11/21/16 at 11:10 am
Posted on 11/21/16 at 1:22 pm to NoHoTiger
Here's the question: do you believe in equal rights? If the answer is yes then men should also have the right after conception be able to choose whether they want to be a parent or not.
Posted on 11/21/16 at 1:42 pm to bcoop199
quote:
Here's the question: do you believe in equal rights? If the answer is yes then men should also have the right after conception be able to choose whether they want to be a parent or not.
So if a woman doesn't want to be a parent after an unwanted pregnancy, her choice is abortion. If a man doesn't want to be a parent after conception, his choice is to sign a paper?
Alternatively, what if those "equal" rights conflict? What if the man wants to be a parent and the woman doesn't want to be one? Is the woman forced to have the baby even though abortion is legal, or does the equality only matter if they want to bow out?
Posted on 11/21/16 at 1:58 pm to LSUTigersVCURams
Article 10 covered it...I don't know how that wasn't the resolution...?
Posted on 11/21/16 at 2:06 pm to bcoop199
quote:
do you believe in equal rights?
I'm pretty sure pregnancy, birth, etc. don't qualify as rights.
Also, given that biologically men and women are different, this isn't actually something that would qualify as an equality issue.
Given biology, men and women have different options. Having different options doesn't equate to having no options.
Posted on 11/21/16 at 2:35 pm to NoHoTiger
It's about equal rights under the law...government can't provide equal rights in biology.
Posted on 11/21/16 at 3:19 pm to bcoop199
quote:
It's about equal rights under the law...government can't provide equal rights in biology.
So you're insinuating that a woman aborting a child is the same under the law as a man signing a paper opting out of any financial obligation for the child?
What is the end game here? Do you believe that men have no options under the current system? In other words, do you believe that a man can get stuck with an unwanted pregnancy through no fault of his own, and that happens often enough to warrant a change of the law?
Posted on 11/21/16 at 4:24 pm to GreatLakesTiger24
I've been saying the same thing for years
Posted on 11/21/16 at 8:24 pm to NoHoTiger
Also, given that biologically men and women are different, this isn't actually something that would qualify as an equality issue.
You've just hit on the intellectual dishonesty and philosophical hypocrisy of modern feminism. They acknowledge biological differences when it benefits their political views (reproductive "rights" and child custody, for starters). However, when it's to their advantage socially or politically those differences are treated as if the don't exist (women in combat, employment law, etc.).
Also, a lot of the responses in this thread are confusing moral obligations with legal rights and responsibilities.
Posted on 11/21/16 at 10:05 pm to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
What is the end game here? Do you believe that men have no options under the current system? In other words, do you believe that a man can get stuck with an unwanted pregnancy through no fault of his own, and that happens often enough to warrant a change of the law?
I'm saying the law doesn't provide men the same equal protection under the law...not hard to figure it out. After conception women under the law can choose not to be a parent. Men under the law should be able to choose to not be a parent as well. So if a women after conception decides she does want to be a parent that's her right under the law. The man should be able to choose not be responsible for that child.
Posted on 11/21/16 at 10:31 pm to bcoop199
quote:
After conception women under the law can choose not to be a parent. Men under the law should be able to choose to not be a parent as well. So if a women after conception decides she does want to be a parent that's her right under the law. The man should be able to choose not be responsible for that child.
I'm genuinely surprised someone can put type this out presumably with a straight face.
If you're being serious, read the thread for all of the reasons why this is a terrible idea and laughably inequitable.
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