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re: I was a member of the jury on the Garrett Ward trial. AMA.
Posted on 6/28/22 at 11:26 am to Reluctantjuror
Posted on 6/28/22 at 11:26 am to Reluctantjuror
quote:
don’t believe he acted in self defense.
I thought the standard was beyond a reasonable doubt. Your reasoning for certainty is suspect at best.
4
Posted on 6/28/22 at 11:33 am to Earnest_P
quote:
I thought the standard was beyond a reasonable doubt. Your reasoning for certainty is suspect at best.
Ah shite. This juror didn’t use all proper legal speak when posting anonymously about the case on a Louisiana forum site, Ward must be innocent.
Posted on 6/28/22 at 11:33 am to TomballTiger
quote:Louisiana 2nd degree murder:
Murder requires intent to cause death not serious bodily injury and death results. That’s the standard at least in Texas. It seems like neither side educated the jury on the actual legal elements of both charges.
quote:
When the offender has a specific intent to kill or to inflict great bodily harm
Posted on 6/28/22 at 11:35 am to Earnest_P
quote:
quote:
don’t believe he acted in self defense.
I thought the standard was beyond a reasonable doubt. Your reasoning for certainty is suspect at best.
quote:
Posted by Message
Earnest_P
Posted on 6/28/22 at 11:44 am to Earnest_P
quote:
I thought the standard was beyond a reasonable doubt. Your reasoning for certainty is suspect at best.
Do you believe the earth is round?
If the answer is yes do you believe this beyond a reasonable doubt?
People are attacking words like felt and believe. I have interviewed 100s of jurors post-trial and these are the words they use most frequently.
I have yet to find one that answered my questions starting with:
"In my capacity as a juror upon listening to and viewing all the evidence presented and weighing the evidence I came to the informed opinion that the prosecution proved their case beyond a reasonable doubt."
They almost always say something like they felt or they believed something to be the truth.
The VAST majority of cases come down to the juror's determination of the veracity of the witnesses/evidence. This is rarely if ever an objective determination, even lie detectors are subjectively interpreted.
I said earlier ITT that the burdens of proof are nebulous. Every judge, attorney, juror, and person in the gallery will have a slightly different definition.
Posted on 6/28/22 at 11:44 am to Reluctantjuror
quote:
The guy that broke the fight up and his girlfriend testified that Jackson was on the ground asking for help and in no condition to fight back then saw ward kick him in the head. The doctors testified that the head wound was consistent with being kicked.
interesting.
He deserved the manslaughter charge, just to be clear.
but i still question how we as a society view this. Again, do we view kicking someone when they are down worst than punching them when they are down? Is there really that big of a difference in that force from an average fit male? I think me personally i'd inflict more damage with my fist than kicking, and i'm a soccer player. But i do think we universally see kicking someone when they are down as worse.
also, what would have happened if the exact scenario played out, but he didn't die? Say a smaller guy delivered the blows in the same exact manner, and simply didn't have the force for it to be lethal. Is he going to be convicted of attempted manslaughter?
Posted on 6/28/22 at 11:53 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
difference in that force from an average fit male
How many times have you seen a person punch a football 60 yards? That being said if one last punch to the head is what caused the fatal injury than there wouldn’t be a difference. He was attacking a defenseless person.
quote:
attempted manslaughter?
Not going to pretend to be a lawyer but this doesn’t sound like a real charge? If the victim hadn’t died the original charge of battery would’ve stayed.
Posted on 6/28/22 at 12:02 pm to redstick13
quote:
How about if you're an a-hole and you beat someone to death?
No problem with that. My issue is with how this jury determined it wasn't self defense and most thought it was murder
Posted on 6/28/22 at 12:03 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:I don't think it matters much whether it was a kick, a punch, or if he teabagged him. Any blow to the head while someone is on the ground and defenseless and begging for help (according to multiple credible witnesses) makes it really tough to support the self-defense claim.
do we view kicking someone when they are down worst than punching them when they are down? Is there really that big of a difference in that force from an average fit male? I think me personally i'd inflict more damage with my fist than kicking, and i'm a soccer player. But i do think we universally see kicking someone when they are down as worse.
That said a kick does far more damage than a punch.
Posted on 6/28/22 at 12:13 pm to Yeti_Chaser
quote:
My issue is with how this jury determined it wasn't self defense
There was no evidence presented to support self defense so why should the jury determine that it was self defense? Prosecution had evidence that the knife story was bullshite.
Posted on 6/28/22 at 12:17 pm to Yeti_Chaser
quote:What makes you think it was self-defense? Ward didn't get treated for anything. Not a knife wound, not a headache, not a boo-boo. He didn't file a report of being attacked, did he? He wasn't defending his home, family, friends, nothing. All he did was claim self-defense. If that's all it took, we'd have a lot more criminals on the streets.
My issue is with how this jury determined it wasn't self defense and most thought it was murder
quote:It's a judgement call, really. That's why 12 people have to agree on it.
most thought it was murder
quote:What was the provocation? Pickpocketing? Did he even take anything? Or was the provocation simply that he was startled? And do you think that "an average person's blood would have cooled" from that provocation by the time Ward got up, beat the man to the ground, and then kicked him in the head? If so, then that judgement call would make it 2nd degree murder. If in your view he was still "in the heat of blood", then it's manslaughter.
Provocation shall not reduce a homicide to manslaughter if the jury finds that the offender's blood had actually cooled, or that an average person's blood would have cooled, at the time the offense was committed
Posted on 6/28/22 at 12:20 pm to Reluctantjuror
quote:
Defense presented a Baton Rouge neurosurgeon as an expert witness
name?
Based on being annoyed to be there, I have a pretty good idea of who it is.
This post was edited on 6/28/22 at 12:21 pm
Posted on 6/28/22 at 12:23 pm to absolute692
Anyone know if the family of the dead guy got a payout from Ward or his family?
The most intriguing thing to me about this trial was the insinuation the family would have signed off on a plea deal had they been paid but then backed off that at the last minute.
That’s what I want to know more about.
The most intriguing thing to me about this trial was the insinuation the family would have signed off on a plea deal had they been paid but then backed off that at the last minute.
That’s what I want to know more about.
Posted on 6/28/22 at 12:23 pm to absolute692
If I was a neurosurgeon I also would have been annoyed to be there
Posted on 6/28/22 at 12:25 pm to LSUtoOmaha
I looked up the docket, it's who I thought it was. Brilliant surgeon, has the personality and bedside manner of a wet paper bag. I'm fairly positive he's annoyed anytime he's not in a surgery.
Posted on 6/28/22 at 12:28 pm to boosiebadazz
quote:
The most intriguing thing to me about this trial was the insinuation the family would have signed off on a plea deal had they been paid but then backed off that at the last minute.
I would think that's off the table for the time being, civil lawsuit will pick it up. Now that Ward has been convicted and sentenced, it seems like that lawsuit would be pretty cut and dry.
Posted on 6/28/22 at 12:29 pm to absolute692
Did the family file a civil suit?
I can’t imagine the kid himself has much in the way of assets and any insurer will get out on an intentional act exclusion.
That leaves the parents but Junior just got tagged with 30 because the family wouldn’t play ball so frick them I’m not paying them shite. They had all the leverage until he was found guilty and now they have no leverage.
I can’t imagine the kid himself has much in the way of assets and any insurer will get out on an intentional act exclusion.
That leaves the parents but Junior just got tagged with 30 because the family wouldn’t play ball so frick them I’m not paying them shite. They had all the leverage until he was found guilty and now they have no leverage.
This post was edited on 6/28/22 at 12:31 pm
Posted on 6/28/22 at 12:29 pm to boosiebadazz
Would Ward’s family be liable to pay anything over this to the family of the deceased?
Posted on 6/28/22 at 12:34 pm to SlimTigerSlap
It was in one of the prior threads on this. Apparently Ward even went to the courthouse one time ready to plea but then it was called off. I think there was an insider here who mentioned something about a payout to the family in order to sign off on the plea but then those negotiations broke down.
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