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re: How tough is law school?

Posted on 12/16/15 at 12:56 am to
Posted by Belvedere
San Francisco
Member since Nov 2015
374 posts
Posted on 12/16/15 at 12:56 am to
quote:

Well, you would be incorrect. And you're an idiot if you go to law school expecting to make 6 figures coming out.


I went to law school and made six figures coming out. Deal with it.
Posted by Belvedere
San Francisco
Member since Nov 2015
374 posts
Posted on 12/16/15 at 12:58 am to
quote:

Most of this is not true. It's not all that far from the truth, but it is exaggerated.


Please explain what isn't true. I'll be happy to disabuse you of your mistakenness.
Posted by Charlie Arglist
Wichita, Kansas
Member since Nov 2012
5550 posts
Posted on 12/16/15 at 1:11 am to
quote:

Most of my friends with law degrees work in some other field and regret wasting the time, effort and money of going to law school.



Let me guess.....you are a plant operator for Shell...........?
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
71200 posts
Posted on 12/16/15 at 1:33 am to
The big issue for engineers is figuring out how to put your analytical process into words. You've already got the thought process down, and you already know how to teach yourself. Once you get the writing down, as long as you can communicate with people, speed read, and retain lots of info, engineers can do well in law school.
Posted by SCTmo
Des Moines
Member since Aug 2007
3026 posts
Posted on 12/16/15 at 1:45 am to
quote:

If you're going to school on full scholarship would you still not recommend it?


No.

If you're good enough to get a full ride, then you're probably good enough to land a solid job somewhere. Use the three years to establish yourself in a career and make some money. You can always go back to get a degree later if you still really want to be an attorney, but you'll actually have money and work experience instead in your pocket now.

If the full-ride is the primary driving impetus behind attending law school, you're making a short-term decision that you could very likely regret once you've started to practice.
Posted by Restomod
Member since Mar 2012
13493 posts
Posted on 12/16/15 at 6:32 am to
quote:

Thinking about getting my law degree


You should also consider an Art, Sociology, and English degree.

Posted by UpToPar
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2008
23106 posts
Posted on 12/16/15 at 8:22 am to
quote:

Please explain what isn't true. I'll be happy to disabuse you of your mistakenness.


Okay. Let's start here:

quote:

The only lawyers who leave law school making six-plus figures are those working at big firms ("biglaw"),


This depends on what you consider "biglaw". Are we talking AmLaw 100 or are we talking firms with over 200 or so attorneys? When I think of "biglaw" I think of Baker Botts, V&E, Latham Watkins, etc. First year associates there are making well over $100K. But, you also have plenty of other firms that are not biglaw that start their associates at or right under $100K. I'm talking about the Taylor Porters, Kean Millers, Jones Walkers, Stone Pigmans, and Phelps Dunbars just to name a few.
quote:

and the vast majority (probably 85-90%) of those graduated from one of the elite top-14 schools.

Again, this depends on your definition of biglaw. That percentage is probably pretty close for Baker Botts, V&E, and Latham Watkins, but that's not even close to being the case at a Jones Walker or Kean Miller.

If you graduate in the top 10% of your class at LSU or Tulane you will have an opportunity to make $100K your first year out. If you graduate in the top 5% you have a really good chance to get on with a "biglaw" firm in Houston or Dallas (or DC for Tulane) out of law school.
quote:

If you aren't going to a top-14 school (with the exceptions of Vanderbilt, Texas, UCLA and USC), I wouldn't waste my time, even with a big scholarship, unless you don't mind making 60k for life (but then you'll never be an OT baller).

I'm guessing that you are exaggerating here. There are plenty of people that are not graduating from those schools each year that are making much more than 60K to start, much less their whole life.

Posted by HarryBalzack
Member since Oct 2012
16369 posts
Posted on 12/16/15 at 8:24 am to
This guy passed.

Posted by Paul Allen
Montauk, NY
Member since Nov 2007
78700 posts
Posted on 12/16/15 at 8:25 am to
Alexander Shunnarah has a net worth of over 150 million dollars.
Posted by HarryBalzack
Member since Oct 2012
16369 posts
Posted on 12/16/15 at 8:27 am to
quote:

Alexander Shunnarah has a net worth of over 150 million dollars.
Like I said, easy money.

ETA: He IS your attorney.
This post was edited on 12/16/15 at 8:28 am
Posted by double d
Amarillo by morning
Member since Jun 2004
17211 posts
Posted on 12/16/15 at 8:42 am to
So easy, a caveman can do it!
Posted by Pettifogger
I don't really care, Margaret
Member since Feb 2012
87748 posts
Posted on 12/16/15 at 9:05 am to
I doubt that is even the case somewhere like Baker Botts. It is at places like Wachtell.

As for big law and 6 figure starting salaries, in decent markets plenty of medium and even small law firms pay 6 figure salaries. It just depends.

One of the best paying firms for associates in Atlanta presently has like 25-30 attorneys. It's not even a boutique firm.
Posted by UpToPar
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2008
23106 posts
Posted on 12/16/15 at 9:07 am to
Yep. Quite a few UT, SMU, and even LSU law grads at places like Baker Botts.
Posted by lapistola
Baton Rouge
Member since May 2008
988 posts
Posted on 12/16/15 at 9:24 am to
The bottom line is that you should only go to law school if you REALLY, REALLY want to be a lawyer. Like its the one thing that you think would make you happy in this world. If you're just doing it to try it out, don't waste your time (even with a scholarship) or money.

And if you do go to law school, dedicate your life to law school the first semester. If you get in the top 20% first semester, you get your foot in the door with the big firms for clerkships and set the foundation for a job if you do good work. Its very, very difficult to get the same opportunity if you finish outside that range and work your way back in the second or third year.
Posted by lapistola
Baton Rouge
Member since May 2008
988 posts
Posted on 12/16/15 at 9:25 am to
quote:

The big issue for engineers is figuring out how to put your analytical process into words. You've already got the thought process down, and you already know how to teach yourself. Once you get the writing down, as long as you can communicate with people, speed read, and retain lots of info, engineers can do well in law school.


This is truth. I had trouble making the change and did poorly my first year. Figured it out my second year by doing lots of practice exams and getting feedback from professors and finished strong the last two years.

quote:

If you aren't going to a top-14 school (with the exceptions of Vanderbilt, Texas, UCLA and USC), I wouldn't waste my time, even with a big scholarship, unless you don't mind making 60k for life (but then you'll never be an OT baller).


This is completely untrue. Like other posters have said, if you finish in the top 10% at LSU you will likely be able to find a job in the $80-90k range right out of school with raises and bonuses. If you finish in the top 20-25% and have good social skills, you will have the same opportunities. Granted, that is a small percentage of the class, but if you dedicate yourself to doing well, you can easily achieve this goal.
Posted by studentsect
Member since Jan 2004
2306 posts
Posted on 12/16/15 at 9:28 am to
quote:

If you aren't going to a top-14 school (with the exceptions of Vanderbilt, Texas, UCLA and USC), I wouldn't waste my time, even with a big scholarship, unless you don't mind making 60k for life (but then you'll never be an OT baller).
I'm guessing that you are exaggerating here. There are plenty of people that are not graduating from those schools each year that are making much more than 60K to start, much less their whole life.


Yea, the Houston market is stronger than some but I know of more young attorneys (<5 years practicing) making over $100K than under $100K, and literally zero that are making $60K or less (and that is including people who are doing landman work). And not one of them went to a top school...mainly LSU, UH and South Texas.
This post was edited on 12/16/15 at 9:30 am
Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
135363 posts
Posted on 12/16/15 at 9:37 am to
quote:

How tough is law school?
From the movie Money Ball:

Scott Hatteberg: "I've only ever played catcher. Is playing first base difficult?"

Billy Beane: "It's not that hard. Tell him, Ron."

Ron Washington: "It's incredibly hard."
Posted by blueridgeTiger
Granbury, TX
Member since Jun 2004
22412 posts
Posted on 12/16/15 at 10:01 am to
quote:

When do all the engineers show up to tell everyone how it's not as hard as an engineering degree?


Chem Engr with a law degree - undergraduate CHE much tougher than law school.
Posted by MSTiger33
Member since Oct 2007
21755 posts
Posted on 12/16/15 at 10:05 am to
quote:

You're one of the only people who should (if you want to get into patent law). Otherwise, forget about it.



I found patent law to be boring. Might just be me though.
Posted by logjamming
Member since Feb 2014
8313 posts
Posted on 12/16/15 at 10:40 am to
It sucks.
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