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re: How many battles did the US lose in the Vietnam War?
Posted on 3/27/18 at 8:00 pm to TigerFanInSouthland
Posted on 3/27/18 at 8:00 pm to TigerFanInSouthland
quote:
did the north win?
The entire goal of going there was to prevent the spread of Commuism throughout all of Vietnam. Vietnam was fully communist shortly after, and continues to be to this day.
I'd say the US didn't achieve their goal. So who would you say "won"?
It's not unpatriotic to say, and it doesn't mean you hate the US.
This post was edited on 3/27/18 at 8:02 pm
3
Posted on 3/27/18 at 8:01 pm to SheManShe
quote:
Dude the North Vietnamese were taking over even as our troops were leaving.
Yeah, as our troops were pulling out. Not while our troops were there. Know what that tells me? That the North Vietnamese couldn’t fricking touch our military.
This post was edited on 3/27/18 at 8:08 pm
Posted on 3/27/18 at 8:02 pm to rintintin
quote:
The entire goal of going there was to prevent the spread of Commuism throughout all of Vietnam. Vietnam was fully communist shortly after, and continues to be to this day.
I'd say the US didn't achieve their goal. So who would you say "won"?
It's not unpatriotic to say, and it doesn't mean you hate the US.
Thank you for summarizing my points. Your post is spot on. And I am going to reiterate your last sentence. Because I think that is what is going on.
quote:
It's not unpatriotic to say, and it doesn't mean you hate the US
Posted on 3/27/18 at 8:03 pm to rintintin
And, by the time we left and all parties signed the treaty, the north was a communist state and the south was not. In any case, this thread is about the supposed 104 battles that we lost.
Posted on 3/27/18 at 8:03 pm to northshorebamaman
quote:
most of the entries cite the amount of American casualties with no mention of what the VC or NVA lost.
Parents back Stateside generally don't care much about that statistic.
At any rate, as things are going now the US in fact did win in Vietnam. The stated objective was to stop communism from toppling local regimes like dominoes. This did not happen and today many US companies do good business there.
Posted on 3/27/18 at 8:03 pm to rintintin
quote:
The entire goal of going there was to prevent the spread of Commuism throughout all of Vietnam. Vietnam was fully communist shortly after, and continues to be to this day.
I'd say the US didn't achieve their goal. So who would you say "won"?
It's not unpatriotic to say, and it doesn't mean you hate the US.
It's also possible to have an independent discussion of the individual battles while also acknowledging that we lost the war.
Posted on 3/27/18 at 8:05 pm to northshorebamaman
quote:
t's also possible to have an independent discussion of the individual battles while also acknowledging that we lost the war.
Agreed. I got off topic as well. I would say the number of battles that we lost ate exaggerated. We did lose some, even several. But the number of “battles” lost is exaggerated, in my opinion
Posted on 3/27/18 at 8:06 pm to SheManShe
quote:
Thank you for summarizing my points. Your post is spot on. And I am going to reiterate your last sentence. Because I think that is what is going on.
I don't think anyone thinks that. I don't. I think some people are interested in discussing the individual battles and some seem unable to do that.
Posted on 3/27/18 at 8:06 pm to SheManShe
quote:
Dude the North Vietnamese were taking over even as our troops were leaving.
That's because we had withdrawn from all our forward areas. There was nothing for them to take over.
Posted on 3/27/18 at 8:07 pm to northshorebamaman
quote:
It's also possible to have an independent discussion of the individual battles while also acknowledging that we lost the war.
Exactly, I’m not trying to say that the north didn’t win. I’m trying to say that our military didn’t lose.
Posted on 3/27/18 at 8:09 pm to SheManShe
quote:
The US got their asses kicked. Plain and simple. They were unprepared and unmotivated. .
Absolutely not. Politics and negative media coverage lost the war. In individual battles the US kicked arse
Posted on 3/27/18 at 8:13 pm to SheManShe
quote:
You are right. The US was well prepared and should have been there. It was a good move on their part.
It's obvious you're ignorant of just what went on in Vietnam.
Dumbass.
Posted on 3/27/18 at 8:14 pm to SheManShe
quote:
The US got their asses kicked. Plain and simple.
False. Read a fricking book.
Allied deaths : 47,000
VC/NVA deaths : 444,000
The US wasn't beaten. Public outcry and the non military parts of our Government interfering with the armed forces led us to withdraw. So the commies took over and the country went to shite. Our military did't get its 'arse kicked".
This post was edited on 3/27/18 at 8:19 pm
Posted on 3/27/18 at 8:15 pm to RogerTheShrubber
When you are going against people on their own turf dug in like badgers with machine guns and a native population who aren’t convinced they want to be helped, nobody really wins. You kill a bunch of them but you can’t really “win”.
Posted on 3/27/18 at 8:16 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Politics and negative media coverage lost the war. In individual battles the US kicked arse
Politics and media are a big part of wars. And as I stated, I think the number of battles that we lost our exaggerated. So I think we are in agreement more than disagreement My first post was a poor choice of words. The thread was about individual battles. I digressed and meant the war. The words arse kicked were too strong and not meant to be taken literally. So to reframe that I would say that the North Vietnamese “won” by achieving their end goal. We did not achieve our end goal which I count as a “loss”.
Posted on 3/27/18 at 8:17 pm to TigerFanInSouthland
First off, why are you even saying 100? Wtf does that mean? If there's 10,000 battles and we lost 100 it doesn't matter as much right?
The USA pulled out. We won if we wanted to, we were bombing the north to oblivion and most studies believe they were very close to having to give up but our politics gave up first. Sure we lost 60,000 men but they lost over 1 million.
So do the math and figure how who was the better military there?
The USA pulled out. We won if we wanted to, we were bombing the north to oblivion and most studies believe they were very close to having to give up but our politics gave up first. Sure we lost 60,000 men but they lost over 1 million.
So do the math and figure how who was the better military there?
Posted on 3/27/18 at 8:18 pm to TigerFanInSouthland
quote:
No, but we aren’t talking about favoritism in the American citizenry. We’re talking about battles that the US military took part in.
You brought up the military getting a bad rap, not me.
Posted on 3/27/18 at 8:19 pm to SheManShe
quote:
They were unprepared and unmotivated.
Surely you jest. The good ol gov'ment cause our issues in Vietnam. A string of bad decisions and the influence of the left caused our inability to infiltrate north of the DMZ, Cambodia, and Laos.
It's like anything else, you can't half-arse something and expect a favorable outcome.
I'll give you, when we first went in as advisors to the indig's we weren't prepared, hell, even Colonel Moore admitted such. We adapted rather quickly though.
Expanding the LRRP's, holding hard fought ground, cutting off the Ho chi minh trail, bring the war to the North all would have gone a long way towards victory. All of these things were fubar'd by the folks sitting at the round, er, square table.
Posted on 3/27/18 at 8:20 pm to TigerFanInSouthland
I know we lost the battle for Firebase Ripcord. My 2nd Cousin was there and one of the few that survived. A quick Wikipedia search tells me it was the last major battle of the war.
Posted on 3/27/18 at 8:20 pm to northshorebamaman
quote:
don't think anyone thinks that. I don't. I think some people are interested in discussing the individual battles and some seem unable to do that.
I don't know, by reading the OP's posts it doesn't seem to me like he wants to admit that.
This all stems from a thread on the Poli board about who would win in a fight between the armed American people and the US gov't/military, and the OP got upset about someone using Vietnam as an example that superior fire power doesn't always mean winning the war, which is true.
You can argue that the US completely obliterated the Vietcong, which is also true, but at the end of the day they outlasted the US and their politicians.
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