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re: How many battles did the US lose in the Vietnam War?
Posted on 3/27/18 at 9:03 pm to TigerFanInSouthland
Posted on 3/27/18 at 9:03 pm to TigerFanInSouthland
War of attrition over conquering/occupying territory was arguably the most stupid-arse strategy ever constructed and doomed to failure as far as the big picture was concerned. "Don't fire until fired upon" also stupid, LBJ micromanaging the bombing campaign and not going Madman like Nixon did also dumb. Vietnam was a classic textbook case study on why politicians shouldn't be running wars even though the Constitution empowers the POTUS in that regard.
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Posted on 3/27/18 at 9:06 pm to TheTideMustRoll
quote:
Our war aim, which should have been to render the North incapable of further attacks against the South
I’m not sure that would have been possible even if it was our war aim. The Soviets and China would’ve still poured munitions into the north and I think the Chinese may have done what they did at Chosin in Korea and come to the aid in military strength for the north.
ETA: I do find the rest of your post very level and with its merits.
This post was edited on 3/27/18 at 9:08 pm
Posted on 3/27/18 at 9:10 pm to Backinthe615
quote:
Viet Cong played the long game and gave no shi
The Viet Cong was wiped out as effective combat force during the Tet Offensive. They were so decimated the North had to transfer entire regiments of NVA regulars into ad hoc VC battalions just so they could still claim that the VC was still in the fight.
The truth of thf Vietnam War was it was one of he most lopsided wars in history. The US arse raped the communists at every turn until we forced them to sue for peace in 1973 and sign the Paris Peace accords, ending the Vietnam War having achieved our goal of preserving South Vietnam. That’s when we pulled out. When the war was over AND WON. Only later in 1975, TWO YEARS AFTER THE END OF THE VIETNAM WAR, did the North, resuppled and rearmed by the Soviets, launch ANOTHER WAR, in which the US ignored it’s treaty obligations (thanks tic liberal democrats in Congress) and refused to give South Vietnam aid. In this second war the Noth overran the South. The US abandoned its ally and stayed out of this war all together.
Posted on 3/27/18 at 9:15 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
The truth of thf Vietnam War was it was one of he most lopsided wars in history. The US arse raped the communists at every turn until we forced them to sue for peace in 1973 and sign the Paris Peace accords, ending the Vietnam War having achieved our goal of preserving South Vietnam. That’s when we pulled out. When the war was over AND WON. Only later in 1975, TWO YEARS AFTER THE END OF THE VIETNAM WAR, did the North, resuppled and rearmed by the Soviets, launch ANOTHER WAR, in which the US ignored it’s treaty obligations (thanks tic liberal democrats in Congress) and refused to give South Vietnam aid. In this second war the Noth overran the South. The US abandoned its ally and stayed out of this war all together.
This has been my stance all along. I will always hold firm that American government lost its integrity here.
Posted on 3/27/18 at 9:15 pm to SheManShe
quote:
You are right. The US was well prepared and should have been there. It was a good move on their part.
You dumbass. Do you realize how many N Vietnamese, Vietcong were killed by the US? The politicians wouldn’t let the military win this war. Many Vietnam vets have told me that if we would’ve lined up shoulder to shoulder like the old BritishArmy did and marched from the south to the North, the war would’ve been over in months and they would’ve been destroyed.
Posted on 3/27/18 at 9:19 pm to Kafka
quote:
we lost all but two big ones in the Revolution but won the war. so it all evens out.
That’s not exactly true.
Posted on 3/27/18 at 9:19 pm to TigerFanInSouthland
quote:
This has been my stance all along. I will always hold firm that American government lost its integrity here.
Exactly. It was then in the early 70s when the modern liberal progressives took over the Democrat party, and thus the Congress and forced the US to abandon its ally. The liberal media played its part by creating the lie that we had “lost” the Vietnam War. We didn’t lose shite. We didn’t even lose a single major engagement the whole damned war.
Posted on 3/27/18 at 9:29 pm to TigerFanInSouthland
I am 68, my draft lottery number was 3, got lucky and got into the National Guard in Abbeville. just ahead of my draft notice. Unfortunately I did not have those "painful" bone spurs that plagued so many draft dodgers.
It was a war that could not have been won. You had these old farts in congress who worried about the domino principle. The US felt it had a right to tell other countries how to govern themselves. We felt the ends justified the means so we supported a dictator who only wanted to get rich. The NVA used their own version of patriotism. Next thing you know, we are losing 50 a week then 100. We lost over 52,000. We had draft riots. We had protesters plaguing LBJ with the chant "Hey Hey LBJ, how many kids did you kill today." Meanwhile the national guard was only doing training to battle our own people in riots. Our country was tearing itself apart. The protests led to the downfall of 2 presidents and the elimination of the draft. It was eliminated so no congressmen's kids could get drafted. All because of the "domino principle and nobody questioned it.
To all those in Congress and the White House, I say you want a war then let your kids serve in the front and get their heads blown off instead of some poor kids with no political pull or bone spurs.
It was a war that could not have been won. You had these old farts in congress who worried about the domino principle. The US felt it had a right to tell other countries how to govern themselves. We felt the ends justified the means so we supported a dictator who only wanted to get rich. The NVA used their own version of patriotism. Next thing you know, we are losing 50 a week then 100. We lost over 52,000. We had draft riots. We had protesters plaguing LBJ with the chant "Hey Hey LBJ, how many kids did you kill today." Meanwhile the national guard was only doing training to battle our own people in riots. Our country was tearing itself apart. The protests led to the downfall of 2 presidents and the elimination of the draft. It was eliminated so no congressmen's kids could get drafted. All because of the "domino principle and nobody questioned it.
To all those in Congress and the White House, I say you want a war then let your kids serve in the front and get their heads blown off instead of some poor kids with no political pull or bone spurs.
Posted on 3/27/18 at 10:18 pm to Shiftyplus1
shiftyplus......’at least a Million VC/NVR were killed
Posted on 3/27/18 at 10:22 pm to TigerFanInSouthland
dumbass Johnson and McNamara lost the war. If they would have bombed Honai in early 66 the North would have been destroyed, read any book NVA Generals wrote.
The most famous Gen. Giap
Johnson and McNamara are assholes
Posted on 3/27/18 at 10:31 pm to namvet6566
quote:
dumbass Johnson and McNamara lost the war. If they would have bombed Honai in early 66 the North would have been destroyed, read any book NVA Generals wrote.
We were devastating the entire north with our bombardments. We were controlling everything that happened and then we quit. It’s unexplainable and inexcusable.
Posted on 3/27/18 at 10:34 pm to TigerFanInSouthland
quote:
The military gets a bad rap for Vietnam when they performed as well as could be expected when they were fighting with their hands tied behind their backs by the politicians in D.C.
Lsu football gwts a bad rap when it loses games because of the leader on the sidelines.
Posted on 3/27/18 at 11:07 pm to TigerFanInSouthland
Super fast and loose use of the term "battle" - a lot of very small engagements and very small bits and pieces of actual battles included in there to get that number.
Let's just say, we didn't lose a lot of ground to any VC or NVA forces. We lost people in engagements. Some engagements it is fair to say we lost. Most, it is fair to say we won or were inconclusive.
We essentially secured a military victory in the war and forced the enemy to accept terms reasonably favorable to us and our allies. Then 2 short years later, the Congress of the United States refused to authorize President Ford to enforce those hard earned terms, thus - in a brilliant move, we lost a fricking war we had already won.
Let's just say, we didn't lose a lot of ground to any VC or NVA forces. We lost people in engagements. Some engagements it is fair to say we lost. Most, it is fair to say we won or were inconclusive.
We essentially secured a military victory in the war and forced the enemy to accept terms reasonably favorable to us and our allies. Then 2 short years later, the Congress of the United States refused to authorize President Ford to enforce those hard earned terms, thus - in a brilliant move, we lost a fricking war we had already won.
Posted on 3/27/18 at 11:13 pm to SheManShe
quote:
Dude the North Vietnamese were taking over even as our troops were leaving.
Not true. Untrue. You're conflating 2 events. The military withdrawal (1973) and the evacuation of Saigon (1975).
After the Paris Accords, the NVA withdrew to Cambodia and the DMZ and the VC cadres still embedded in the South either took a break or otherwise stood down. We withdrew most large combat organizations and left an air support element, and robust security for the key areas in Saigon. But the war was over. There was no significant fighting until after Nixon resigned in 1974. The communists almost immediately reinvaded (having taken the time to rest, rearm, refit, resupply) to test the resolve of the U.S. and the mettle of the ARVN. Neither were up to the task, so the commies just rolled over the ARVN and - game over.
Posted on 3/28/18 at 7:29 am to ksayetiger
quote:
Lsu football gwts a bad rap when it loses games because of the leader on the sidelines.
What a horrible parallel you're trying to draw there.
Posted on 3/28/18 at 8:19 am to TigerFanInSouthland
All I know is that Mel Gibson kicked the shite out of them.
Posted on 3/28/18 at 8:27 am to doubleb
quote:
A quick look at your link indicated that they call almost any engagement a battle.
If that is the case then we have lost plenty of battles. Every time we retreated from a position would qualify.
Posted on 3/28/18 at 9:07 am to TigerFanInSouthland
quote:
How many battles did the US lose in the Vietnam War?
Just the marketing/publicity one.
Posted on 3/28/18 at 9:11 am to Martini
quote:
I suggest to anyone in this thread they watch Vietnam by Ken Burns which can be found on Netflix.
And read "A bright shining lie."
Posted on 3/28/18 at 9:17 am to SheManShe
quote:
The US got their asses kicked. Plain and simple. They were unprepared and unmotivated. Should have never been there.
Shouldn't have been there but they weren't getting their asses kicked by any means.
The Entire Vietnam War Casualty Profiles
Legend:
KIA = Killed in Action
WIA = Wounded in Action
MIA = Missing in Action
CIA = Captured in Action
This post was edited on 3/28/18 at 9:20 am
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