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Message
re: Hospitals around the nation are seeing a 41% increase in non-covid mortality
Posted on 5/4/20 at 10:28 am to shel311
Posted on 5/4/20 at 10:28 am to shel311
quote:
Based on this logic, hospitals have zero control over how much funding they get back from COVID deaths, so you just debunked your own argument.
Coded Covid = 20% increase in payment from Medciare
Not coded Covid = no bump in payment.
Seems like there's some control there, and in fact a monetary incentive.
quote:
Most states
Most states are not opening back up. Some states are. And those states are getting hammered for doing so.
This post was edited on 5/4/20 at 10:29 am
3
Posted on 5/4/20 at 10:29 am to atxfan
quote:
Sounds like the patients themselves are choosing to put off treatment because they're scared of infection. Seems like you're trying to make it sound like a poilicy was created that denied treatment to non-COVID patients.
Come on, man! You don't think the media and politicians haven't created a fearful environment?? Telling people to stay home, wear masks, bed space needed for victims, etc is telling you to stay away!! Especically for older folks who have been told they are at a much higher risk category, you don't think they are going to be scared to go out for doctor visits, testing, etc??
Posted on 5/4/20 at 10:29 am to MSTiger33
quote:
Just wait until they do postmortem testing and reclassify half those deaths as Covid deaths
It is actually opposite of what you posted. You do realize the hospitals are getting more $ on corona cases right? Why not designate something a corona related when it is not and make the hospital more money?
Posted on 5/4/20 at 10:30 am to Open Your Eyes
My wife told me they have about 90 breast cancer surgeries backed up. They don’t expect to be back in the OR until Tuesday after Memorial Day
This post was edited on 5/4/20 at 10:31 am
Posted on 5/4/20 at 10:31 am to atxfan
quote:You are extremely misinformed.
Saying that hospitals have stopped delivering normal healthcare is just ridiculous.
Posted on 5/4/20 at 10:31 am to Centinel
quote:
Presumed. Not confirmed. Presumption gives you much more leeway than confirmation.
But you knew that.
Actually, "Presumptive" means they have been tested positive by state or local level, but has not been confirmed by CDC
You make it seem like they are just coding anyone with symptoms without even testing
Posted on 5/4/20 at 10:31 am to MSTiger33
quote:phototgraphs?
My wife
Posted on 5/4/20 at 10:34 am to Tiger in Texas
quote:
Especically for older folks who have been told they are at a much higher risk category, you don't think they are going to be scared to go out for doctor visits, testing, etc??
Another point I forgot to mention. Older people in care facilities that sustain some type on injury or illness are being told they will not be allowed back into those care facilities if they leave to go get treatment.
Posted on 5/4/20 at 10:37 am to Centinel
quote:All you've really said to argue your point is that 20% would help them, while you haven't addressed that it would be a long term net negative.
Why do you keep ignoring the fact I've addressed this multiple times already, and you have yet to refute anything I've said when I have?
Coding less patients as COVID would help hospitals more, but you haven't addressed why they would not do that and instead hurt themselves.
Posted on 5/4/20 at 11:02 am to Open Your Eyes
quote:
That’s simply not the only reason. There were literal policies created preventing them from receiving treatment. Would you like me to paste the text from the story that was linked since you obviously didn’t read it? I could also find another link to MD Anderson not allowing current patients to receive ongoing treatments for you to not read.
The article that you linked discussed surgeries that were considered elective and how tough it can be to make that determination. The original post was based on emergency care. Incredibly unfortunate story for that woman and I would hate for any relative of mine to deal with that. Assessing the risk with cancer patients can't be easy when trying to balance immediate care/ increased risk of complications during recovery vs. trying to ride it out for a bit.
Posted on 5/4/20 at 11:03 am to Centinel
quote:frick the scaremongers that are hammering the states for opening up.
Most states are not opening back up. Some states are. And those states are getting hammered for doing so.
Arkansas was hammered by the media for not issuing a stay-at-home order.... we have had a TOTAL of 76 deaths, 25 per million
Mississippi issued a stay-at-home order... and has had 303 deaths, 101 per million, 4X Arkansas.
This post was edited on 5/4/20 at 11:04 am
Posted on 5/4/20 at 11:26 am to Centinel
quote:
Most states are not opening back up.
27 states have at least partially opened back up.
quote:
And those states are getting hammered for doing so.
No. Mostly just Georgia.
Posted on 5/4/20 at 11:27 am to atxfan
But elective surgeries have been postponed for several weeks. Hospitals were even deferring surgeries on pts with known cancer diagnosis. We won’t know for some time how postponing these procedures/surgeries have affected patient outcomes.
Posted on 5/4/20 at 11:45 am to shel311
quote:
You are extremely misinformed.
My wife is a doctor and has been delivering most of her "normal" healthcare via telehealth calls. She's also pregnant and has done several normal healthcare appointments via telehealth herself. Their call pool has been changed up so they aren't moving between hospitals as frequently and elective surgeries have been cancelled, but they haven't stopped delivering normal healthcare. Maybe other specialties have shut down?
Posted on 5/4/20 at 11:46 am to atxfan
quote:
Sounds like the patients themselves are choosing to put off treatment because they're scared of infection. Seems like you're trying to make it sound like a poilicy was created that denied treatment to non-COVID patients.
Likely this. Of course, I'm supposed to have another hernia surgery in my stomach because of past surgeries (this one is 2 inches above the naval); this will be my fifth one in six years. I'll just wait until it becomes strangulated, then I can blame COVID-19. As far as cancer treatments are concerned, I'm not sure what I would do. Of course, with my history, they could force me to stay in the hospital. When I had leukemia, I had to stay in the hospital during my entire chemotherapy treatment, but I'm not sure how viable that would be, and I really don't know how much safer it is. I still got infections and pneumonia, which extended my treatments (as in, delayed them, which extended my hospital stay). I missed all of second semester of school, and the summer, before finally returning to school in OCtober!
Posted on 5/4/20 at 11:54 am to tigers03
quote:
But elective surgeries have been postponed for several weeks. Hospitals were even deferring surgeries on pts with known cancer diagnosis. We won’t know for some time how postponing these procedures/surgeries have affected patient outcomes.
Agree 100%.
Posted on 5/4/20 at 11:56 am to lsupride87
People die
Posted on 5/4/20 at 12:02 pm to atxfan
quote:
The article that you linked discussed surgeries that were considered elective and how tough it can be to make that determination. The original post was based on emergency care. Incredibly unfortunate story for that woman and I would hate for any relative of mine to deal with that. Assessing the risk with cancer patients can't be easy when trying to balance immediate care/ increased risk of complications during recovery vs. trying to ride it out for a bit.
It also talks about how hospitals are using “algorithms and a team of experts” to determine what is and is not essential. There was also this:
“"There was someone who had a brain tumor who was told they would not be able to have surgery, which was basically, and appears to be, a death sentence for that patient," Lichtenfeld says.”
Posted on 5/4/20 at 12:06 pm to Centinel
quote:You forgot one important thing, which has been mentioned to you over and over in his thread.
Coded Covid = 20% increase in payment from Medciare
Not coded Covid = no bump in payment.
Seems like there's some control there, and in fact a monetary incentive.
Not coding COVID patients as COVID = Lessens COVID cases, which would have allowed the hospitals to open up sooner, which would be wayyyyyy better to their bottomline than a 20% increase in payments from each COVID death.
So you have yet to answer why commit fraud to do one thing when you can commit fraud to do something else that would be much better for the business.
quote:Most states are, your statement is not correct
Most states are not opening back up.
quote:They're also being praised for doing so.
And those states are getting hammered for doing so.
Posted on 5/4/20 at 12:09 pm to ABearsFanNMS
quote:As has been beaten to death in this thread, because hospitals doing this are ensuring low volumes and canceled elective procedures for longer time, which makes them way more money than 20% extra per COVID death.
It is actually opposite of what you posted. You do realize the hospitals are getting more $ on corona cases right? Why not designate something a corona related when it is not and make the hospital more money?
If they are going to do something illegal, they would be classifying COVID deaths as not related to COVID, thus greatly reducing the # of COVID deaths, thus helping to reopen everything back up, thus getting volumes and elective procedures back up sooner, thus making way more money than 20% extra on COVID deaths.
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