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re: History buffs, how different would the world be today if Kennedy was never assassinated?
Posted on 4/20/22 at 9:32 am to Tiger Ryno
Posted on 4/20/22 at 9:32 am to Tiger Ryno
Here’s where my theory on RFK’s being more history altering is based on. Again, this assumes he goes in to win the 68 election, which was no sure thing.
1. Nixon appointed 4 Supreme Court justices in his first term.
2. We all know of Watergate, but the biggest atrocity of that was Ford pardoning almost all of the actors in it. It set the stage for future leaders to go soft on presidential corruption.
3. There is strong evidence Nixon sabotaged Vietnam peace talks during his 68 campaign. He smartly knew that if LBJ obtained a peace treaty prior to the election, it could hurt his chances of winning. He won and escalated US involvement, and tarnished the US military, not to mention the number of deaths that resulted.
1. Nixon appointed 4 Supreme Court justices in his first term.
2. We all know of Watergate, but the biggest atrocity of that was Ford pardoning almost all of the actors in it. It set the stage for future leaders to go soft on presidential corruption.
3. There is strong evidence Nixon sabotaged Vietnam peace talks during his 68 campaign. He smartly knew that if LBJ obtained a peace treaty prior to the election, it could hurt his chances of winning. He won and escalated US involvement, and tarnished the US military, not to mention the number of deaths that resulted.
2
Posted on 4/20/22 at 9:36 am to Tiger Ryno
quote:
History buffs, how different would the world be today if Kennedy was never assassinated?
Hard to say, but considering LBJ was maybe arguably the most despicable human to ever occupy the office, I can’t imagine things would be worse.
Posted on 4/20/22 at 9:36 am to RazzleDazzle
quote:
In today's world Kennedy would be a Republican.
In todays world, the left would call him a Nazi
Posted on 4/20/22 at 9:36 am to Tigeralum2008
Would we still be on a "Gold Standard" ?
Posted on 4/20/22 at 9:38 am to memphis tiger
quote:
Hard to say, but considering LBJ was maybe arguably the most despicable human to ever occupy the office, I can’t imagine things would be worse.
We had a string of terrible presidents. LBJ, Nixon and then the ineffective Ford and Carter. Reagan REALLY flipped that script.
Posted on 4/20/22 at 9:39 am to The Spleen
quote:
We all know of Watergate, but the biggest atrocity of that was Ford pardoning almost all of the actors in it. It set the stage for future leaders to go soft on presidential corruption.
STFU. You don't know wtf you're talking about.
Posted on 4/20/22 at 9:40 am to Tiger Ryno
Castro would have been removed from power… Mafia falls before “RICO RUDY”… Nixon never becomes President…
Posted on 4/20/22 at 9:41 am to Tiger Ryno
We would have a large colony on the Moon and one on Mars.
We would be sending manned missions beyond Pluto.
Posted on 4/20/22 at 9:43 am to sofar
quote:
probably not much different.
I tend to go with this. The Vietnam "memo" is something taken out of greater context. JFK's whole foreign policy is based on NSC 68 and the anti-communist ideology of Paul Nitze. JFK was a Cold Warrior through and through. Not a man of peace.
His martyrdom created a mythology that doesnt jibe with reality. The higher likelihood is that JFK escalates Vietnam, esp since he was the one who already escalated it to begin with.
Domestic policies would be similar to LBJ, just with a nicer smile attached.
Posted on 4/20/22 at 9:43 am to Tiger Ryno
Bobby was a longshot to get the nomination. This revisionist history that RFK was the presumptive nominee is just that, revisionist history. And, despite 5 decades of Kennedy hagiography, it's doubtful Bobby beats Nixon even if he gains the nomination.
In some ways, Oswald and Sirhan Sirhan were the greatest things to happen to the Kennedy family. It allowed all the Camelot sycophants to mythologize what was a fairly non-descript and lackluster presidency into this legend that doesn't really stand up to scrutiny. JFK was not this hugely popular leader most of the media and historians would have you believe.
In some ways, Oswald and Sirhan Sirhan were the greatest things to happen to the Kennedy family. It allowed all the Camelot sycophants to mythologize what was a fairly non-descript and lackluster presidency into this legend that doesn't really stand up to scrutiny. JFK was not this hugely popular leader most of the media and historians would have you believe.
Posted on 4/20/22 at 9:46 am to Tiger Ryno
Central bank would be gone. Gold standard still in place. Prosperity. He was going to flunk with their control.
Posted on 4/20/22 at 9:46 am to RazzleDazzle
quote:No. He'd have morphed. Kennedys were not honorable people.
In today's world Kennedy would be a Republican
Posted on 4/20/22 at 9:47 am to rd280z
quote:
Would we still be on a "Gold Standard" ?
That's a really interesting question...
JFK Library transcript from press conference in 1962
quote:
Listen to this news conference.
QUESTION: Mr. President, several times recently, you expressed concern about the gold drain. Why does the United States, of all the major nations in the world, permit foreign holders of its currency to exchange it for gold, and while this practice continues, even if we achieved a balance of international payments, would we be able to stop the drain of gold?
THE PRESIDENT: If the United States refused to cash in dollars for gold, then everyone would go to the gold standard, and the United States, which is the reserve currency of the whole free world, we would all be dependent upon the available supply of gold which is quite limited.Obviously, it isn't enough to finance the great movements of trade today, and it would be the most backward step the United States has taken since the end of the Second World War. We have substantially improved our position this quarter, the second quarter over the first quarter. Our loss is down to almost a third of what it was in the first quarter. Our loss, based on the first and second quarter of this year, is about half of what it was last year, and about a third of what it was the year before. We hope that we can bring our balance of payments into balance by the end of next year.We are not going to devalue. There is no possible use in the United States devaluing. Every other currency in a sense is tied to the dollar, and if we devalued, all other currencies would devalue and so that those who speculate against the dollar are going to lose.The United States will not devalue its dollar, and the fact of the matter is the United States can balance its balance of payments any day it wants, if it wishes to withdraw its support of our defense expenditures overseas and our foreign aid.Now, these have been undertaken, and we have put over $50 billion into Europe alone since 1945. We are not requesting them to do anything but to meet their responsibilities for their own defense, as we are helping to meet them. We spend $1.5 billion in the defense of Europe and the NATO commitments. Thirty per cent of the infra structure of NATO is paid for by the United States. We don't object to that. We are not going to devalue. We are going to be able to bring our balance of payments into balance by the end of next year and I feel that those who hold dollars abroad have a very good investment and we have over $16.5 billion here in the United States, we have over $50 billion held by American citizens in investments overseas. This country is a very solvent country. So I feel it requires a cooperative effort by all of those involved in order to maintain this free currency, the dollar, upon which so much of Western prosperity is built.I have confidence in it, and I think if others examine the wealth of this country, and its determination to bring its balance of payments into order, which it will do, I think that they will feel that the dollar. is a good investment and as good as gold.
Seems he was leaning on keeping us off the gold standard.
This post was edited on 4/20/22 at 12:25 pm
Posted on 4/20/22 at 9:50 am to Tigeralum2008
There would be less fringe people in both parties... Maybe.
Posted on 4/20/22 at 9:52 am to Tiger Ryno
Ultimately we end up pretty much where we are now, but just a different way of getting there. I doubt there's a Nixon presidency as early.. which probably would mean no Reagan era until maybe a few years later if at all.
Posted on 4/20/22 at 9:53 am to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
In some ways, Oswald and Sirhan Sirhan were the greatest things to happen to the Kennedy family. It allowed all the Camelot sycophants to mythologize what was a fairly non-descript and lackluster presidency into this legend that doesn't really stand up to scrutiny. JFK was not this hugely popular leader most of the media and historians would have you believe.
Agree with most, but one does have to credit Kennedy's handling of the Cuban Missile Crisis. Very deftly balanced warhawks ready to destroy human civilization and peaceniks who would allow the Soviets an upper hand. He learned from his earlier failures (Bay of Pigs, Austria Summit) and applied his lessons. Something to be said for that, and for stopping nuclear Armageddon without cowtowing to the enemy.
His assassination definitely created a mythology. People forget how close the 1960 election was and that there is a strong possibility that he won it by fraud. Also, almost every president with a strong first term, follows with a shitty second one. By 1968, his luster may have been worn down.
Posted on 4/20/22 at 10:08 am to Tiger Ryno
Read Stephen King's 11/22/63 for a look.
Posted on 4/20/22 at 10:13 am to Tiger Ryno
quote:
Cokes please
It's true though, mathematically. Right?
Posted on 4/20/22 at 10:17 am to Tiger Ryno
quote:
It seems to be the turning point of American culture going down the toilet.
I think LBJ really hurt the fabric of American Society and the culture in low income areas. I don't think it is coincidence that the number of children being brought up in single parent homes has greatly increased since he implemented the "marriage tax" on government benefits. He is essentially incentivized having kids out of wedlock in low income areas.
This post was edited on 4/20/22 at 10:18 am
Posted on 4/20/22 at 10:21 am to The Spleen
quote:
Yeah, the guy that championed his progressive side would side with the part today that demonizes progressives.
A lot of leftists today like to make the false equivalency that the southern democrats just became Republicans - that there's no difference in the ideologies. That's not true. What is true is that democrats have moved so far to the left that Kennedy much more ideologically resembles a modern moderate conservative platform than anything the democrats are currently pimping.
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