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re: Happy Reformation Day
Posted on 11/2/26 at 12:02 pm to SparkyWilson
Posted on 11/2/26 at 12:02 pm to SparkyWilson
I asked for the how and you repeated a proposition.
Fair enough man, fair enough
I know for a fact that Luther would have handled that question differently. He would have pointed to his baptism for assurance. He did, in fact.
This demonstrates pretty well how far Protestantism has drifted from its original intent. Looks like a bit too far for my satisfaction.
All good. Thanks for the responses.
Fair enough man, fair enough
I know for a fact that Luther would have handled that question differently. He would have pointed to his baptism for assurance. He did, in fact.
This demonstrates pretty well how far Protestantism has drifted from its original intent. Looks like a bit too far for my satisfaction.
All good. Thanks for the responses.
Posted on 11/2/26 at 12:31 pm to bayoubengals88
quote:
I asked for the how and you repeated a proposition.
Fair enough man, fair enough
I know for a fact that Luther would have handled that question differently. He would have pointed to his baptism for assurance. He did, in fact.
This demonstrates pretty well how far Protestantism has drifted from its original intent. Looks like a bit too far for my satisfaction.
All good. Thanks for the responses.
You are welcome.
Posted on 11/2/26 at 8:02 pm to SparkyWilson
As it happens, I'm even more dissatisfied with Protestantism today than I was yesterday. The late Michael Heiser was a renowned author with truly a fantastic academic pedigree, and absolutely talks himself into a corner here.
The only thing that you can do with salvation is, you've got two choices. You can either believe it, or reject it!
Oh wow, Thanks Mike. That's really simple why didn't I think of that?!
It gets worse...The spirit of God comes to indwell the believer so that you will know that God is with you. You have gifts so that you know that God is in your corner...God wants you to succeed and he's given you the spirit to help you every step of the way...then he impersonates a questioner by asking "well what if I have a doubt? what if I sin?"
He says "that isn't the question. Neither of those is the question. The question is always the same. Who do I trust for salvation? Who am I trusting with eternal life? It's one question! And God asks that you believe that He has provided the answer to that and there's no other answer. You go to heaven, not on the basis of your own merit...but then right after that he says the question is "where is your allegiance, where is your loyalty?
[[say bruh, allegiance and loyalty sure sound like merit to me]]
Who do you believe? Because the Lord will not tolerate you believing in somebody else. You might doubt. You're gonna struggle, you're going to sin. Those boxes will be checked. The Apostles checked those boxes too. The one that needs to be unchecked is I don't believe this anymore. I like this other god over here. Or, I don't believe in any God at all. I'm going to be my own god. That's the box that needs to be unchecked, perpetually, in perpetuity.
WHAT?!? Can you say circular?? Those qualifiers totally discredit the argument. Wait, I gotta believe perpetually now? In perpetuity? That's not grace. That's works. That does nothing to address serious doubt. You might as well be in and out of a state of grace like the Catholics. But the Prots don't have the solution...
Here's the heart of why I'm don't find much use for most of Protestantism:
No one can define where doubt ends and unbelief begins.That’s the whole problem, and that's why I like the sacramental approach, especially if it's real.
The only thing that you can do with salvation is, you've got two choices. You can either believe it, or reject it!
Oh wow, Thanks Mike. That's really simple why didn't I think of that?!
It gets worse...The spirit of God comes to indwell the believer so that you will know that God is with you. You have gifts so that you know that God is in your corner...God wants you to succeed and he's given you the spirit to help you every step of the way...then he impersonates a questioner by asking "well what if I have a doubt? what if I sin?"
He says "that isn't the question. Neither of those is the question. The question is always the same. Who do I trust for salvation? Who am I trusting with eternal life? It's one question! And God asks that you believe that He has provided the answer to that and there's no other answer. You go to heaven, not on the basis of your own merit...but then right after that he says the question is "where is your allegiance, where is your loyalty?
[[say bruh, allegiance and loyalty sure sound like merit to me]]
Who do you believe? Because the Lord will not tolerate you believing in somebody else. You might doubt. You're gonna struggle, you're going to sin. Those boxes will be checked. The Apostles checked those boxes too. The one that needs to be unchecked is I don't believe this anymore. I like this other god over here. Or, I don't believe in any God at all. I'm going to be my own god. That's the box that needs to be unchecked, perpetually, in perpetuity.
WHAT?!? Can you say circular?? Those qualifiers totally discredit the argument. Wait, I gotta believe perpetually now? In perpetuity? That's not grace. That's works. That does nothing to address serious doubt. You might as well be in and out of a state of grace like the Catholics. But the Prots don't have the solution...
Here's the heart of why I'm don't find much use for most of Protestantism:
No one can define where doubt ends and unbelief begins.That’s the whole problem, and that's why I like the sacramental approach, especially if it's real.
This post was edited on 11/2/26 at 8:06 pm
Posted on 11/3/26 at 1:10 am to Moustache
No discussions to this comment. Interesting.
This post was edited on 11/3/26 at 1:11 am
Posted on 11/3/26 at 6:51 am to TigerJack8
If you’re talking about my comment I think that’s about as clear as I can make my struggles
Posted on 11/3/26 at 7:12 am to bayoubengals88
quote:
In other words, Protestant theology, if there is one, certainly doesn’t help someone to keep their faith, where Catholicism is oddly more merciful in meeting the frail human where he is. In short, here’s some emotional songs and an informative talk. See ya next week! Salvation is by faith. Just believe. It doesn’t ultimately matter how you live.
There isn’t. I’ve said it all along, it isn’t a “Catholics vs Protestants” issue. Protestants, themselves, can’t seem to agree on anything.
For example, Protestants can’t agree on:
Baptism / when to baptize
Communion / Lord’s supper (symbolic vs presence)
Church hierarchy / church structure and leadership (elders, deacons, bishops, woman’s participation)
Predestination and free will
Interpretation of scripture
Think of the vast differences alone between Episcopals — Baptists — Presbyterians — Church of Christ — Methodists — Pentecostals — Church of the Nazarene — Lutherans and so on.
There’s a reason you have 100s of variations of Protestant denominations. They, themselves, don’t know and can’t agree. They all vastly differ on gravely important topics.
Say what you will, but other than Vatican II, the Catholic Church has stayed the same since the beginning.
Posted on 11/3/26 at 8:41 am to GentleJackJones
I hope you don’t think I’m disagreeing with you
Not in the least.
Not in the least.
Posted on 11/3/26 at 8:56 am to meeple
Catholicism before Luther is nothing like Catholicism today. Undeniable truth.
Luther got that started. That's a "reformation" like it or not.
Luther got that started. That's a "reformation" like it or not.
Posted on 11/3/26 at 9:11 am to Alyosha
quote:pro nobis vs pro multis
Posted on 11/3/26 at 11:50 am to meeple
Martin Luther was a horrid antisemite. He openly advocated for the destruction of the Jews, including their slaughter. Centuries later, his writings and sermons inspired the basis of the Nazi propaganda. Luther's views were so lauded by the Reich, that they held the Kristallnacht pogrom on his birthday in his honor. Most Protestants don't have a clue that Luther was a deranged, evil man.
Posted on 11/3/26 at 2:58 pm to MzJimLahey
Get some fresh air.
Posted on 11/4/26 at 9:21 am to MzJimLahey
quote:
Martin Luther was a horrid antisemite. He openly advocated for the destruction of the Jews, including their slaughter. Centuries later, his writings and sermons inspired the basis of the Nazi propaganda. Luther's views were so lauded by the Reich, that they held the Kristallnacht pogrom on his birthday in his honor. Most Protestants don't have a clue that Luther was a deranged, evil man.
Now we have 10,000 fake strip mall "churches" run by brother Bubba who wants 10% or you gonna Gwine up in hell. Luther was and is pure evil.
Posted on 11/4/26 at 9:36 am to red sox fan 13
quote:
It’s interesting to me that in the long run Protestantism has largely died out in Europe but the Catholic Church is still kicking.
And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
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