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re: GM, Ford are all-in on EVs..here’s how their dealers feel about it
Posted on 6/13/21 at 6:01 pm to DomincDecoco
Posted on 6/13/21 at 6:01 pm to DomincDecoco
quote:
Tell me what type of work you do in power generation and or transmission /distribution ...because that CERTAINLY aint the consensus of what Im hearing
I’m in a weird space where I work with banks and development companies in the energy production and distribution sector. I’m basically the engineering version of a mediator for big finance deals. I have 100s of IE reports on this very topic and anyone who says they “know” what we need is wrong because there’s significant disagreement between the experts. The only consensus is grid expansion will not happen in the way it has in the past. The biggest reason for this is the potential for EV adoption and what that much storage does and how the technology and most importantly policy evolve.
This post was edited on 6/13/21 at 6:06 pm
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Posted on 6/13/21 at 6:02 pm to rickgrimes
quote:
A forward thinking dealership will be thinking about how to convert their massive service bays into charging stations and also adding a couple of restaurants and coffee shops for people to hang out while they wait to charge their cars.
Yeah...real forward thinking...a coffee shop to serve a bunch of gen Z dickheads while they charge up!
I promise you—the only forward thinking a dealer principle is doing is the end of month total sales numbers.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 6:05 pm to rickgrimes
quote:
I think Ms. Rita could be in for a bit of a shock when it comes to how often EVs need (or don't need) service.
They will cure this by designing in flaws to make them break.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 6:05 pm to EA6B
quote:
No you probably don’t, even 10, 000 square feet of solar panels would take two weeks of full su to recharge a Tesla model 3 once. The Tesla home “fast” charger requires a 240 volt 50 amp circuit to recharge in 7-8 hours.
This!
Posted on 6/13/21 at 6:09 pm to Kattail
quote:
EVs are great but what about the electrical grid?
What happens in a natural disaster situation like a hurricane where the grid in a large area gets wiped out? Or areas like California where the grid can barely keep up now? There are over 17 million vehicles in California. Where are they going to get the power to keep over 17 million vehicles charged?
Posted on 6/13/21 at 6:09 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:While this is technically accurate, it is quite possible that we will reach the point where the cost of extracting/refining the oil will surpass its economic value.
We'll never run out of oil.
At which point “running out of oil” will be moot.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 6:10 pm to EA6B
quote:
No you probably don’t, even 10, 000 square feet of solar panels would take two weeks of full su to recharge a Tesla model 3 once.
You need to check your math.
A solar panel can put out 15 watts per square foot, but let's cut that down to 10. Most places in the US get on average at least 3 hours of full sun per day, but let's cut that down to 2 and say that a square foot of panel gets you only 20 watt-hours per day. 10,000 sqft of panels could fully charge 2 Model 3's every day, or 28 of them in two weeks.
But to be more realistic, as a whole we only drive 50 miles per day, which in a Model 3 would burn about 20kwh. So the average person would need about 1k sqft of solar panels to keep their car fully charged every day (or at least offset the consumption).
Posted on 6/13/21 at 6:11 pm to rickgrimes
quote:
. I just returned our daily commuter Chevy Bolt after a 3-yr lease
Man, you almost made it to the halfway point to making your EV better for the environment.
Should’ve stuck it out for another 4 years, ya know, for the environment.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 6:11 pm to FearlessFreep
quote:
it is quite possible that we will reach the point where the cost of extracting/refining the oil will surpass its economic value.
That has been a concern as long as I’ve been alive. But technology keeps defeating that problem.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 6:16 pm to rickgrimes
I am moderately skeptical that either Ford or GM are still relevant automobile manufacturers in 20 years.
Tesla is really far ahead of not just the other American companies but also their international competition. Tesla is also taking control of their production (including battery production) so this would probably be a much more self reliant outcome than other manufacturers (Ford, GM, etc) using parts and assembly in Mexico, Europe, or Asia.
If you are into performance cars they are bringing back the roadster. For around $200k you will get a car with better performance (0 to 60 mph in 1.9 seconds) than luxury sports cars with a million dollar price tag.
The SUV is still too expensive for middle class families to justify but it should come down from the 80k figure over time.
Musk also seems to think (based on statements made in the fall of 2020) they are only a few years from producing a basic model for around 25k. Given the savings on purchase price and maintenance that model arguably becomes a no brainer purchase for people who buy based on value rather than performance.
I think change is coming for good reasons more than bad. We can end up with American made cars which are fun and affordable.
Tesla is really far ahead of not just the other American companies but also their international competition. Tesla is also taking control of their production (including battery production) so this would probably be a much more self reliant outcome than other manufacturers (Ford, GM, etc) using parts and assembly in Mexico, Europe, or Asia.
If you are into performance cars they are bringing back the roadster. For around $200k you will get a car with better performance (0 to 60 mph in 1.9 seconds) than luxury sports cars with a million dollar price tag.
The SUV is still too expensive for middle class families to justify but it should come down from the 80k figure over time.
Musk also seems to think (based on statements made in the fall of 2020) they are only a few years from producing a basic model for around 25k. Given the savings on purchase price and maintenance that model arguably becomes a no brainer purchase for people who buy based on value rather than performance.
I think change is coming for good reasons more than bad. We can end up with American made cars which are fun and affordable.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 6:34 pm to molsusports
quote:
Tesla is really far ahead of not just the other American companies but also their international competition. Tesla is also taking control of their production (including battery production) so this would probably be a much more self reliant outcome than other manufacturers (Ford, GM, etc) using parts and assembly in Mexico, Europe, or Asia.
This is so misinformed.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 6:40 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
What happens in a natural disaster situation like a hurricane where the grid in a large area gets wiped out? Or areas like California where the grid can barely keep up now?
Damn Darth, I can't believe anyone has thought of this yet! They better start trying to think of a solution.
All these Ivy and prestigious engineering school educated people and the excavator salesman debunks them on a message board in 2 seconds. Crazy!
Posted on 6/13/21 at 6:41 pm to Bestbank Tiger
quote:Hybrids are a good idea in theory, but in reality instead of combining the best of both they combine the worst of both. You keep all the mechanical complexity of ICE, then make it worse by adding EV equipment to the mix. You make the downside of EV (range) worse by taking up battery space with all the ICE stuff. You also don't get the performance of a pure EV because everything has to be smaller, and the same goes when powered by the ICE. They might make sense for some people and for some use patterns, but it seems like a better idea for 2 vehicle households to have an one EV and one ICE vehicle.
Why not just produce more hybrids? Then we use less gas and use the infrastructure we already have in place. No need to reinvent the wheel.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 6:44 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:Yes, technology somehow keeps defying the odds and defeating problems. I wonder why so many people think that sourcing other materials are insurmountable problems?quote:That has been a concern as long as I’ve been alive. But technology keeps defeating that problem.
it is quite possible that we will reach the point where the cost of extracting/refining the oil will surpass its economic value.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 6:44 pm to BuckyCheese
quote:
This is so misinformed
Help me out.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 6:45 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:The obvious answer is to decentralize power generation, mostly via home solar panels, and stored in home battery banks and EVs. This would be a much more resilient system, and it gives the individual the option of energy independence.
What happens in a natural disaster situation like a hurricane where the grid in a large area gets wiped out? Or areas like California where the grid can barely keep up now? There are over 17 million vehicles in California. Where are they going to get the power to keep over 17 million vehicles charged?
But something tells me you won't like that idea, either.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 6:46 pm to troyt37
If you’re a machinist, or have the ability/equipment, you will be worth gold. Don’t get me wrong, electric motors, and the likes are going to take over, but those that have the ability to keep the old stuff running will be able to name their price.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 6:46 pm to Korkstand
quote:
. I wonder why so many people think that sourcing other materials are insurmountable problems?
Some of them are stupid and some of them think of every hypothetical way for it to fail becuase they think it's some attack on their religion, ehhh, I mean political beliefs
Posted on 6/13/21 at 6:48 pm to biohzrd
quote:
If you’re a machinist, or have the ability/equipment, you will be worth gold. Don’t get me wrong, electric motors, and the likes are going to take over, but those that have the ability to keep the old stuff running will be able to name their price.
Yep cotton gin and horse carriage mechanics are making bank these days!
Posted on 6/13/21 at 6:49 pm to rickgrimes
quote:A better idea, IMO, would be to invest in battery swap stations. Might take some standardization on a few pack configurations, but swapping an empty pack for a full one can be faster than filling a gas tank. This also solves the other half of the fast-charge problem, as the packs can be recharged slowly, extending their usable life.
A forward thinking dealership will be thinking about how to convert their massive service bays into charging stations
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