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re: Foam insulation in new construction

Posted on 11/10/18 at 6:35 am to
Posted by fishfighter
RIP
Member since Apr 2008
40026 posts
Posted on 11/10/18 at 6:35 am to
That is one of the draw backs. Now if the house is going to be the only or last house that one is planning to keep a life time, then that is were it would pay for itself.

A life time house being built for a younger person, there is only one thing that will happen. That person will want to down size once the family/kids grow and move out. At that time, one will be planning more for retirement and how to save here and there. Heating and cooling is a big factor down that line.

So, pay now or pay later. The old catch 22.
Posted by lsuhunt555
Teakwood Village Breh
Member since Nov 2008
38970 posts
Posted on 11/10/18 at 6:37 am to
quote:

How do you feel about spray foam under the floor on raised houses?

I live in a pier and beam house that’s 70+ years old. I would recommend it. It makes a huge difference in electric bill. Also reduces the noise when you walk through the house. It helps with the floor temperature to the touch, but not a lot.
Posted by Croozin2
Somewhere on the water
Member since Dec 2004
3374 posts
Posted on 11/10/18 at 6:39 am to
I’ll second the rock wool if you don’t want to take fish’s recommendation. FIL used it in his home and talked to me about it. He has an extensive construction background. We used it in a vacation condo after rebuilding. Unbelievable thermal and noise barrier. Also, as fish said, FIL rarely turns his actual heat on, 2500sf home and has a wood-burning stove/fp with blower. Lights a good fire, turns on fan on furnace to circulate and voila.

Friend of mine installs spray foam. He will readily admit, to me, at least, the pros and cons. When sprayed between rafters, the heat between the foam and roof decking can’t easily dissipate. The heat buildup will prematurely age a shingle roof. I Don’t necessarily know about walls pro/con. Just my .02
Posted by fishfighter
RIP
Member since Apr 2008
40026 posts
Posted on 11/10/18 at 6:49 am to
On the little guest house I'm building, it is on piers. I will have the flooring under sprayed with foam. Living in the country, if one is trying to use batting, Animals will find a way to make up a new home for themselves.

Good thing now, One can buy foam kits and DIY it yourself. Cost around $350-$400 per 600sf at a r value of 19.
Posted by Croozin2
Somewhere on the water
Member since Dec 2004
3374 posts
Posted on 11/10/18 at 6:57 am to
quote:

Animals will find a way to make up a new home for themselves.


They absolutely will! A building on piers would be a perfect application for foam, but I think I still would enclose with some sort of chicken wire afterwards.
Posted by WM
West Monroe
Member since Nov 2003
841 posts
Posted on 11/10/18 at 6:58 am to
quote:

HVAC needs to be sized correctly if you do full foam.


This^^^
Posted by Shoulderchoke
Swamps of Lafourche
Member since Aug 2008
7941 posts
Posted on 11/10/18 at 7:07 am to
I sprayed in Rock wool. Couldn’t be any happier. Did some cost/value analysis vs. foam and didn’t see the value needed to pay the extra for spray foam.

Our house is around 3000 living and our electric Bill is typically between $120-$175.

We also keep the lights off durning the day. Relying on natural lighting helps keep the energy costs down.
This post was edited on 11/10/18 at 7:10 am
Posted by wickowick
Head of Island
Member since Dec 2006
46269 posts
Posted on 11/10/18 at 7:09 am to
quote:

I live in a pier and beam house that’s 70+ years old. I would recommend it. It makes a huge difference in electric bill. Also reduces the noise when you walk through the house. It helps with the floor temperature to the touch, but not a lot.


I would agree with all of this...
Posted by The Dozer
H-Town
Member since Feb 2017
5601 posts
Posted on 11/10/18 at 7:10 am to
I’m currently building a pier and beam in Houston and sprayed closed cell foam underneath the house. I am doing sprayed in blankets pretty much everywhere else as opposed to foam for the reasons mentioned already. A climate controlled attic requires a dehumidifier in Houston to prevent moisture buildup in the attic, and that’s one more piece of mechanical equipment I’d have to upkeep for a ROI I don’t think I’ll see.

So to compromise, my attic has radiant barrier on the roof decking, so that will remove a good amount of heat from the attic. Attic floor will be blown in, exterior walls will be blown in, and interior walls that I want sound proofed (bedrooms mainly) will be blown in.

This is the best compromise I could come up with. The closed cell insulation below the sub floor was a must do however based on my research. Everything else was preference.
Posted by Tridentds
Sugar Land
Member since Aug 2011
23428 posts
Posted on 11/10/18 at 7:22 am to
Has to be flexible type foam, not rigid. We did all vertical exterior walls with foam and blow in for the attic. Heard too much about trapping moisture if you foam the attic. Decided not to chance it so we didn’t foam the attic No regrets on my end.
Posted by SWCBonfire
South Texas
Member since Aug 2011
1408 posts
Posted on 11/10/18 at 7:35 am to
quote:

To the OP, I highly suggest you go watch some of Matt Risinger's vids on youtube. 


This. You can get into some real trouble if you do not control vapor and bulk water.

Basically, any surface you put spray foam over has to dry out to the far side away from the foam. If that is a thick wall, it will take a while. If that wall has a vapor barrier on the other side, the wall will be a sponge for moisture and mold growth.

If you spray foam your floor, and have a spill or leak in the bathroom, that subfloor now has to dry out to the interior of your house. That's why dehumidifiers and energy recovery ventillation are important on a spray foamed house.

Incidentally, a dehumidifier may also allow you to downsize the hvac system a bit.
Posted by Man4others
Member since Aug 2017
2458 posts
Posted on 11/10/18 at 7:39 am to
There are two types of spray foam. Open cell and closed cell. Closed cell imo is better b/c it adds structural integrity and won’t retain moisture.
Posted by olemc999
At a blackjack table
Member since Oct 2010
15059 posts
Posted on 11/10/18 at 7:40 am to
I gotta dumb question for ya, how is a log cabin insulated?
Posted by sodcutterjones
Member since May 2018
1314 posts
Posted on 11/10/18 at 7:44 am to
quote:

There is some people who don't like it. Main rub is it doesn't allow the house to breath.


Yeah I’ve heard that too but there is another camp that says houses don’t need to breathe. Even with regular fiberglass insulation, houses these days are tight compared to 50 years ago.
I built my house in 2015 and went with spray in from concrete to roof tip. No issues and my heating/ cooling system has no problems. Even went half ton less on the outdoor unit. More and more people are going with the spray in.
I like it because when i go in the attic it is cool and I can see all my wires and plumbing without having to dig around in insulation.
Posted by gumbo2176
Member since May 2018
19333 posts
Posted on 11/10/18 at 7:46 am to
quote:

I gotta dumb question for ya, how is a log cabin insulated?


The thickness of the logs and the kind of chinking between logs for walls. You can insulate under the flooring and many times they will put thick insulation foam board on the roof prior to screwing down metal roofing.
Posted by Mid Iowa Tiger
Undisclosed Secure Location
Member since Feb 2008
23723 posts
Posted on 11/10/18 at 7:48 am to
My BIL owns a spray foam insulation company. That shite is an amazing add in both new con and retro.

Yes absolutely pay the extra and spray foam.
Posted by olemc999
At a blackjack table
Member since Oct 2010
15059 posts
Posted on 11/10/18 at 7:52 am to
Thanks for the answer. Every time I ever googled it, google brought up chinking and I thought that was just the crack filler that had insulating effects. I thought they got a special polyurethane type of spray or something that was extra thick.

I am a dumb electrician that only works on elevators and lifts
Posted by olemc999
At a blackjack table
Member since Oct 2010
15059 posts
Posted on 11/10/18 at 8:00 am to
quote:

The heat buildup will prematurely age a shingle roof.


What happens with a tin roof?
Posted by FLAK88
Gonzales La.
Member since Jan 2015
494 posts
Posted on 11/10/18 at 8:02 am to
I use shredded newspaper
Posted by Wayne Kenoff
Member since Sep 2018
540 posts
Posted on 11/10/18 at 8:05 am to
From what I understand foam insulation works better than just about any other type of insulation.

BUT

The installer MUST know what they’re doing because too much in an area can give off toxic fumes and become a total nightmare. I really wanted to go with this in my attic but I found multiple videos on YouTube about nightmare scenarios people have had with it and quickly decided against it. The risk is not worth the reward for me. I went with a combination of blown in and lay down bat insulation. Made a giant difference in summer electric bills for me.
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