re: Ellen Page wants you to know that his/their name is Elliot

Why did you ignore this part of my post?

Gender can be easily determined through a series of tests as well. For example: Every cell in your body is either XX or XY no matter what you think. That’s an easily determinable test for gender.

You want to be legally recognized as a woman because you believe you should be despite what factual science says about your chromosomes.

Why can’t you apply the same for age?

You have every right to believe and call yourself whatever you want, I will support you in your own beliefs but where I have a problem is this:

Should the law treat you how you identify?

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Absolutely

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If I’m medically transitioning, have seen mental health professionals, and am presenting as the gender I am, then yes, I should be treated as such

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So women’s only sports, clubs, areas, loans, scholarships, schools, jobs, etc should all be open to you and any other trans individual who presents as female?

You agree with this only if a doctor and a judge say so? Do you have that much faith in judges and doctors?

Again I will ask you, if this is true, then why can we not say the same thing for age? Why is age not fluid? Race? Sobriety?

If your internal thought processes can supersede verifiable external factual science for gender then why can the same not be true for every other aspect of being?

If I am factually 30 but identify and present as 15 why can’t I legally be treated as a 15 year old? If I get an activist judge and therapist to agree with me, is it ok then? Would you support me? Why or why not?

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What are we in danger of?

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If you legitimately believe transgender people are the gender to which they identify,I find it dangerous to tell them that they are the gender to which they identify but only if a judge and doctor says so otherwise nothing they believe is true.

I ignored that portion of you post because I didn’t feel it needed to be addressed. Sure science can test for the sex of the child when in the womb, that’s not news. I’m biologically male, I have made no qualms about that.

To be recognized as a woman on my driver license in Washington is easy. I can go down to the DMV and say I want to have a big fat “F” where it says sex. Am I happy about that? Sure, little victory for me. Does it leave a ton of questions and issues? Yep, I’d agree with you.

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So women’s only sports, clubs, areas, loans, scholarships, schools, jobs, etc should all be open to you and any other trans individual who presents as female?

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Yup. Absolutely. Although I do go against the LGBTQ collectively at times as I have some issues with transwomen in sports to a degree.

not all transgender folk agree with the politics

so don't confuse the issue of self-identification the right to live life according to your choices and the social/political debate

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Nguyener

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my responce was to the last post in the thread which was yours when started

Vagina = Ellen

Penis = Elliot

It’s not hard to figure out.

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But don’t you see just how exhausting this whole thing gets Nguyen?

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No. I don’t. I don’t find simple conversation exhausting. And I certainly don’t find trying to analyze radical legal framework changes with someone who wants society changed too exhausting to do.

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I’ve said it before multiple times, I have to be an expert in bio/theology/law and civil rights whenever I discuss this stuff.

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No you don’t. I’m not. Why can’t you give your opinions? Why can’t you discuss logically the scenarios I offer? You might not be an expert but you seem an intelligent person capable of discussion.

That said, I can absolutely guarantee if I was demanding society change based on my feelings I’d be an absolute expert on what that means and be able to defend it.

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have you ever had to argue or debate for your existence, your civil rights and to be treated just like any other person?

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No I’ve never had to argue for my existence or my civil rights. I have been treated horribly by people and society when I was younger for other reasons. Most people probably have at some point. I have been denied scholarships and positions because of my race and gender. I was literally told in both college and beyond “sorry we don’t need another one of you” “you’re not what we’re looking for” “we don’t have room for you”.

I didn’t break down and demand people and society change to fit my needs. I learned and worked harder and overcame every objection. And if someone wants to treat me differently or make judgments about me or deny me something, I am confident enough in myself to move on from them or prove them wrong.

Let me ask you a question: When were you ever not treated like every other person? Please explain. When did you have your existence denied or your civil rights taken away?

Who gives a frick?