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re: Do you think the Allies would have won WWII if Russia has sided with Germany?
Posted on 7/25/18 at 3:02 pm to celltech1981
Posted on 7/25/18 at 3:02 pm to celltech1981
Initially Russia did side with Germany. They participated in the Polish invasion, and took a large chunk of Eastern Poland.
Russia also assisted German subs who wanted to go North of Russia into the Pacific Ocean to attack shipping there.
The pact didn't last long. Neither Hitler or Stalin intended on keeping it.
Russia also assisted German subs who wanted to go North of Russia into the Pacific Ocean to attack shipping there.
The pact didn't last long. Neither Hitler or Stalin intended on keeping it.
Posted on 7/25/18 at 3:11 pm to ten Hoor Hall
it's hypothetical, bud.
Posted on 7/25/18 at 3:14 pm to celltech1981
yes. the US was the overwhelming military and industrial power in the 40s due to the fact that our country was not affected by the conflict
we would have won the war no matter who we were fighting against once we fully mobilized and put all of our economic and industrial might into the war
the US was the single most powerful military machine that world has ever known, and probably ever will know, in 1945
we would have won the war no matter who we were fighting against once we fully mobilized and put all of our economic and industrial might into the war
the US was the single most powerful military machine that world has ever known, and probably ever will know, in 1945
Posted on 7/25/18 at 3:15 pm to celltech1981
Hitler considered Bolshevism the utter anthesis of Nazism and a Jewish threat to the entire world so as far as historical what-ifs go, this is really stretching it.
Posted on 7/25/18 at 3:16 pm to EmperorGout
Germany couldn’t have won a war against Russia or the United States much less both. They didn’t have the resources. Their military might was smoke and mirrors and they didn’t have the ability to keep the war machine production rolling like the US and Russia could
Posted on 7/25/18 at 3:17 pm to celltech1981
Hitler hated the Communists far more than the French, British, or Americans. I can’t think of any feasible reason how Stalin and Hitler could have maintained their alliance for long.
Posted on 7/25/18 at 3:18 pm to celltech1981
I am going to assume that the Soviet Union does not participate in the war at all; therefore no Winter War or Soviet invasion of Poland.
In time, the Allies will win. The British Empire managed to hold off the Germans for well over a year all by their lonesome so once the Americans come in it is game over. Most likely the bomb would be used on Germany and that’s that.
In time, the Allies will win. The British Empire managed to hold off the Germans for well over a year all by their lonesome so once the Americans come in it is game over. Most likely the bomb would be used on Germany and that’s that.
This post was edited on 7/25/18 at 3:19 pm
Posted on 7/25/18 at 3:21 pm to gumbo2176
A victory at Midway by the Japanese would have only delayed their inevitable decimation. People don't realize the scale of American industrial supremacy.
The US built 175 Fletcher class destroyers. Not destroyers. Fletcher class destroyers. That's more ship's of that one type than probably the rest of the world's navies built during the war combined.
Now add in all the other types of DDs, CAs, BBs and CVs (of all types) we built. That's not counting the amphibs, Liberty ships and support ships of all types. Hitler and the Japanese had no concept of what they were getting into.
If Germany and Russia were in bed together, they might force a negotiated peace. Russia sitting out? Germany survives another couple years, but still gets rolled.
The US built 175 Fletcher class destroyers. Not destroyers. Fletcher class destroyers. That's more ship's of that one type than probably the rest of the world's navies built during the war combined.
Now add in all the other types of DDs, CAs, BBs and CVs (of all types) we built. That's not counting the amphibs, Liberty ships and support ships of all types. Hitler and the Japanese had no concept of what they were getting into.
If Germany and Russia were in bed together, they might force a negotiated peace. Russia sitting out? Germany survives another couple years, but still gets rolled.
Posted on 7/25/18 at 3:21 pm to MLCLyons
quote:
I doubt they would've bothered invading England.
Germany never had the naval capacity to mount such a huge operation anyway. Frankly, between the US and Royal Navies, the idea that an Axis soldier was ever going to set foot in the UK is fairly laughable.
Posted on 7/25/18 at 3:24 pm to celltech1981
I think so. Just would have taken longer.
Russia depended on the US for food and material.
Russia depended on the US for food and material.
Posted on 7/25/18 at 3:25 pm to LSUBoo
Even with Russia, the US isn't easy to reach.
Now we may have lost England as a staging base.
Now we may have lost England as a staging base.
Posted on 7/25/18 at 3:27 pm to madmaxvol
quote:
Remember...the Russians were working on atomic weapons, too. Would their work with German Physicists have propelled them ahead of the US in developing the bomb? Even though they got a little later start than us...it was the war with Germany that really slowed down Russian development of the atomic weapon.
This is just nonsensical scenario. The Nazis archenemy were the Communists. Hitler’s first month in office he purged all the Communists out of the country even before the Jews. They’re not going to work together building horrible weapons that the other would certainly weaponize against them as early as possible.
Hitler’s main focus even going back to Mein Kampf has always been in the East and not the West. He saw the West as a nuisance trying to hold back Germany’s supremacy of the East and the world at large. Hitler had a place for the French, British, and Americans in his world. He had no such place for the Slavs and Communists and was obsessed with wiping them all out.
This post was edited on 7/25/18 at 3:28 pm
Posted on 7/25/18 at 3:30 pm to celltech1981
It's a stupid hypothetical, bud.
Posted on 7/25/18 at 3:30 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
yes. the US was the overwhelming military and industrial power in the 40s due to the fact that our country was not affected by the conflict
How does the United States conduct a war with Germany under a geopolitical context of Britain being eliminated from the war? Or being relegated to the main British Isles only and their Pacific territories? How powerful would Germany have been by 1945 if their situation permitted them to commit more resources to the advanced military projects which war time contingencies required them to put on the backburner? In a scenario of no war with the Soviet Union, these things are all fundamentally altered.
Had the Germans occupied mainland Europe and closed access to the Mediterranean and North Africa, the United States would have had very little capability of bringing it's numbers, resources, and tech to bear on Fortress Europe. It's highly possible in this scenario that the United States and Germany never even go to war.
Posted on 7/25/18 at 3:34 pm to celltech1981
quote:
it's hypothetical, bud.
It’s a hypothetical that someone who was ignorant of history would ask.
Posted on 7/25/18 at 4:24 pm to OMLandshark
As it actually played out, the USA helped China vs Japan.
Suppose instead the Anglo American empire teamed with Japan?
There's no commie China. Eastern China is a subject of Japan. Shanghai is a neutral port. Western China is a British protectorate.
Hong Kong is part of British empire. Korea is occupied by the Anglo American empire.
No Korean war.
Germany runs the e u.
The Russians run the Balkans and soviet union.
The war would be fought in.proxies. Who gets Iraq. Iran. Those sheik countries on red sea.
Indonesia is Japanese.
We would be fighting over Congo yellow cake. Volunteer. 40 acres and a mule.
Suppose instead the Anglo American empire teamed with Japan?
There's no commie China. Eastern China is a subject of Japan. Shanghai is a neutral port. Western China is a British protectorate.
Hong Kong is part of British empire. Korea is occupied by the Anglo American empire.
No Korean war.
Germany runs the e u.
The Russians run the Balkans and soviet union.
The war would be fought in.proxies. Who gets Iraq. Iran. Those sheik countries on red sea.
Indonesia is Japanese.
We would be fighting over Congo yellow cake. Volunteer. 40 acres and a mule.
This post was edited on 7/25/18 at 4:29 pm
Posted on 7/25/18 at 4:28 pm to celltech1981
The very concept of the Soviets "siding with Germany" would have to involve such a completely different reality than the one that occurred, it is almost pointless to consider. In our reality: At no point was a war between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union avoidable.
Posted on 7/25/18 at 4:46 pm to celltech1981
Yes. It would have stretched the war out a lot longer, but the allies would have won. Especially after defeating Japan, the US Navy would have pushed further east and hit Russia directly. Russia had the numbers and ferocity to create one fricking bloody conflict. But the size of the US military industrial complex was downright historical. Combine that with the rest of the Allied Powers. At worst, we would have pushed the Communists out of Europe. At best, burn Moscow to the ground. Casualties would have been unreal, though.
Posted on 7/25/18 at 4:47 pm to tigahbruh
quote:
At no point was a war between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union avoidable.
I believe this to be absolutely correct. Hitler hated the Russians. He had no real plans of ever having a peaceful existence with them.
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