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Posted on 1/4/18 at 2:56 pm to Fun Bunch
The expansion of the universe is not a reversible process. Therefore, it would be impossible for the contraction process to yield the same state as the initial expansion. The entropy would increase.
And if you believe infinite expansion/contraction is possible, you are claiming a process is possible that has never ever been seen, tested, or observed in any way, shape, or form.
And if you believe infinite expansion/contraction is possible, you are claiming a process is possible that has never ever been seen, tested, or observed in any way, shape, or form.
Posted on 1/4/18 at 3:00 pm to CFDoc
Could dark matter have some affect on retraction?
Posted on 1/4/18 at 3:02 pm to ThuperThumpin
quote:
As I've gotten older the opposite has occurred in my view of God. I believed in God as a child and young man and thought I had an idea of what God is and what that relationship meant to me. The more I observed the world and learned about the complexities of life the more it became difficult to contemplate a being that is responsible for all of creation. Add to that the realization that my beliefs were for the most part informed by other people that were frankly less educated than myself and I just become comfortable with not being able to comprehend God. I' still pray in case some ethereal being is listening but I would not say I "know" or have faith in God.
^This guy gets it!
...and he hedges his bets...
quote:
I' still pray in case some ethereal being is listening
This post was edited on 1/4/18 at 3:04 pm
Posted on 1/4/18 at 3:06 pm to Breesus
quote:
I agree. It's where most of these discussions break down. Christianity is the way I was introduced to an existential being greater than myself.
Sounds good. Im backing off now. I think we're on the same page. Not personally, as Im not religious but your argument is sound.
I hope youve found what your looking for spiritually.
quote:
I don't. No one has a monopoly on truth. Because we're humans. And humans are greatly and inherently flawed people. That's backed up by more science than anything else in this thread so far.
True as shite.
Posted on 1/4/18 at 3:06 pm to nola000
Difficult argument to make.
All we've ever seen is a universe racing away from us at an incredible speed and the idea that dark matter gives us a reason for directional bias in the way the expansion took place.
I have no good reason to believe dark matter would re-organize all of the cosmic processes to their original state.
All we've ever seen is a universe racing away from us at an incredible speed and the idea that dark matter gives us a reason for directional bias in the way the expansion took place.
I have no good reason to believe dark matter would re-organize all of the cosmic processes to their original state.
Posted on 1/4/18 at 3:08 pm to CFDoc
quote:
The expansion of the universe is not a reversible process. Therefore, it would be impossible for the contraction process to yield the same state as the initial expansion. The entropy would increase.
And if you believe infinite expansion/contraction is possible, you are claiming a process is possible that has never ever been seen, tested, or observed in any way, shape, or form.
is the universe an open or closed system?
Posted on 1/4/18 at 3:10 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
is the universe an open or closed system?
Do you have faith in other universes?
Posted on 1/4/18 at 3:14 pm to CFDoc
Not really, no.
Posted on 1/4/18 at 3:18 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
Not really, no.
Me either. Then we both agree it's a closed system (this is not a reference to the shape being open or closed, only a reference to whether or not it could be influenced by an outside environment).
So if there's no interaction with another environment, the natural processes within it must be irreversible.
There's no free lunch for the universe IMO.
Posted on 1/4/18 at 3:18 pm to nola000
quote:
..and he hedges his bets...
I guess I'm still mentally wired for faith at some level but I dont define it or seek understanding of it. 
Posted on 1/4/18 at 3:21 pm to nola000
quote:
Could dark matter have some affect on retraction?
An effect, probably yes. But dark energy is accelerating it. We don’t know what either are though.
Posted on 1/4/18 at 4:01 pm to nola000
quote:
They teach that God created everything
Yeah. He set the big bang in motion. The rest is the how and not the why. As I said, your hypothesis about the big bang and formation of the universe and evolution in no way contradicts Christian beliefs.
quote:
that a guy named Jesus was his protege on Earth and did a bunch of other fantastic shite that doesnt fit with anything we know about the physical world.
I'll ignore your blatant ignorance here, which is a tad hypocritical seeing as you call me intellectually inconsistent in the very next sentence, but Jesus and God are the same person. Their relationship is always held to be incomprehendable to us. Perhaps Jesus was the 3 dimensional aspect of a fourth dimensional being interacting with our world in a form we could understand.
quote:
your lack of intellectual consistency based on emotional reaction
Lack of intellectual consistency? When did that happen?
Posted on 1/4/18 at 4:17 pm to DavidTheGnome
Sorry your thread got anchored. I've noticed that the mods will anchor any thread that drifts far from the OP. I invite you to come over to the SEC OT to discuss science. There seem to be far fewer theists there. The OTL seems to be infested with them.
Posted on 1/4/18 at 6:02 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
If you want to see evidence of our Creator just look at something like the intricate workings of the human inner ear or the cardiovascular system or really any of the various systems that all have to work together for life to exist. To suppose these things are the result of an infinite series of random mutations is akin to thinking you could throw piles of junk over a cliff and expecting them to randomly fall into place on the way down making a space shuttle.
Nope. The reason this works is because mutations happen. Usually it doesn't do a damn thing and maybe even hurts the survival chances of the next generation. But sometimes it helps. This generation then has more babies that have the same mutation.
This is *not* random chance. It happens because some random stuff helps (and these traits survive) and others don't.
This is exactly how artificial intelligence works by the way. A computer is told the rules of a game and it plays millions of games against itself, "learning" how to play better without any human intervention. Eventually you get a machine that can play that game better than any human who ever lived.
Posted on 1/4/18 at 6:15 pm to Breesus
quote:
But I'm more than happy to discuss the possibilities of his existence with you as I enjoy philosophical and existential conversations when everyone has an open mind. Just as I am happy to discuss science and theorems and proofs with you.
I completely agree it's possible for a divine being to exist. But based on many years of study in related fields, I just don't believe it is *required* for such a being to exist because it wouldn't explain things better than modern research does.
But I wasn't kidding when I said that if you really want to understand this stuff you'll need to study up and do the lab work. It takes most bright students 4-5 years more or less of full-time study to get the undergrad. And unfortunately TD doesn't have an easy way to draw equations.
That's why I do have some sympathy for people who have never done that level of study - to them, it is no better than just another faith that doesn't make sense. After all, quantum mechanics and relativity are weird. But they deliver the correct results. That's why you have to do the lab work too.
Posted on 1/4/18 at 6:32 pm to Kentucker
quote:
To me it's about the ability to make insights. People like Einstein and Witten are certainly no more educated or knowledgeable than their cohorts but they have that rare ability to make associations within that knowledge that the rest of us would not be able to do.
Yeah I get that but I'm not well-versed enough to be able to tell whether people at that level are crazy, genius, groundbreaking, or just full of shite. It's even harder in this days as discoveries and advancements are so derivative and while still incremental they are exponentially skyrocketing ala Moore's Law.
Posted on 1/4/18 at 7:39 pm to CFDoc
quote:
So if there's no interaction with another environment, the natural processes within it must be irreversible.
You're hitting on something that irks me. So they say the universe is expanding because of redshift. Ok, that's a legitimate observation. But the thing that irks me is that they think they can take that observation and just reverse it like they're rewinding a movie. Unlike a VHS tape, all that rewinding is happening in their heads. They're not actually rewinding anything. They are just saying, "by doing math and shite, we believe the universe started with a Big Bang."
I'm like, "Whoa, whoa cowboy! Ok that's cute, but maybe you're taking this rewinding stuff a little too far". Maybe instead of rewinding so far back and to the point that the math breaks down, how about rewinding it just a little bit? I think we all can agree we can rewind it back a little. But the fact that the math breaks down at the end, well that just might be a not so subtle hint that they went too far with the rewinding idea.
In just a matter of a few years, they went from 1) Hey, there's other galaxies out there!, 2) Hey look, redshift! 3) Hey, let's reverse this shite! and then 4) Big Bang, Motherfrickers!
And they've been propping it up every since. Considering the Big Bangs problems (additions to make the math work), just maybe they should reconsider there initial assumptions that it all started at a single point.
Posted on 1/4/18 at 10:07 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
Violates 2nd law of thermodynamics.
What does?
Talking about thermodynamics.
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