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Message
re: Do Masks work? Second Wave - Covid spikes in Asia (Japan)
Posted on 7/27/20 at 2:34 pm to Salmon
Posted on 7/27/20 at 2:34 pm to Salmon
quote:
o some degree? yes
literally no one has every said masks work 100%, so I have no idea why some of y'all keep acting like this is some great "gotcha"
The rub here is that we are constantly being chastised for something that is obviously beyond our control. Since the mask mandates went into effect here, I have rarely seen anyone in public without one. Yet infection rates keep climbing.
So, do masks work? I have to assume they do in some form; though I do suspect that they are quite limited in effectiveness. But, judging by the data we are seeing from around the world, they certainly aren't the major limiting factor when it comes to the spread of this virus.
1
Posted on 7/27/20 at 2:34 pm to Salmon
quote:
Not really, no, because I've read several of the studies and they all come to the same conclusion, that masks help to some degree
the degree in which they help and whether or not the social aspects are worth it is whats really up for debate
Which studies? When were they published?
quote:
I know. And if I thought you would actually take the time to read all the studies and/or they might influence your opinion, I might, but like I said, it seems like too much effort for a predictable outcome.
Its a bitch move, I know, but such is life on the internet.
Ah...now you're simultaneously running from the argument while attempting to claim the high ground or some sort of superiority over me while doing so.
Nicely done.
Posted on 7/27/20 at 2:34 pm to Salmon
quote:Not being a dick, but I would like to see these as well
Not really, no, because I've read several of the studies and they all come to the same conclusion, that masks help to some degree
The actual studies I have seen, which involve mask use by actual physicians, show no correlation with lower infection rates and cloth medical masks
Posted on 7/27/20 at 2:34 pm to kciDAtaE
quote:
So the lockdown worked then? In regards of slowing the spread. So many people here were screaming that lockdown was dumb and “why allow grocery stores to be open” and other nonsense
Uh, what? Everyone understands that a lockdown slows the spread. Those arguing against lockdowns were pointing out that they are not sustainable, and eventually we have to face the virus. We should only lockdown enough to prevent the virus from overwhelming our health care facilities. Nowhere in America have the health care facilities reached capacity, therefore we are locking down too stringently.
As an example: In New Orleans there have been 7 Corona deaths in the last week. Our hospitals are almost empty. Why is the Mayor tightening the lockdown? The answer is so obvious I needn't point it out.
Posted on 7/27/20 at 2:35 pm to GenesChin
quote:What's the current count of morbidly obese in Japan? Heart disease, high blood pressure, autoimmune diseased, congestive heart failure, diabetes?
The US spike reported ~73,500 new cases on Friday alone. The OP's number for Japan's spike was 4,654 for the entire week (~650/day).
If a spike to about 650 cases in a day is newsworthy for a population of about 130mil, seems like Japan is doing something right.
How many do you see riding around shopping on fricking scooters because they are so unhealthy that they can't walk the perimeter of a grocery store without assistance?
This country has to be to most unhealthy on the planet and folks think a damn paper thin mask is going to save them from a virus?
Posted on 7/27/20 at 2:36 pm to Sasquatch Smash
quote:
What have you seen out in reality that makes your recognize that masks help reduce spread to some degree?
What have YOU seen, out in realty, to make you think seatbelts and airbags prevent deaths?
Both are friggin obvious.
Posted on 7/27/20 at 2:37 pm to Privateer 2007
quote:
2100 hospitalizations at peak Covid , 1600 now and there are issues with beds.
Except there are no issues with beds now. That is media hysteria.
Posted on 7/27/20 at 2:40 pm to Magician2
quote:
July 25: 4,654
Yesterday, Japan reported 536 new cases and 830 two days ago. So they had 4,654 cases in an entire week (ending July 25th).
So...Japan had less cases in an entire week than New York, California and Texas each have had in a single day this week.
Japan has 126 million people, and they had just over 500 new cases yesterday. Florida has 21 million people and they had just over 9,000 cases yesterday. Japan has had a total of 29,000 cases total. In the US, that would put them behind:
California - 460,000
New York - 440,000
Florida - 432,000
Texas - 397,000
I could go on...but to summarize...they would be between Washington D.C. (11,800) and South Dakota (8,400) in total cases so far.
Yes...I would say they are handling it better than us.
Posted on 7/27/20 at 2:40 pm to Sasquatch Smash
quote:
Ah...now you're simultaneously running from the argument while attempting to claim the high ground or some sort of superiority over me while doing so.
Nicely done.
I'm not running from any argument. I just don't feel like citing shite. We can all Google. Plenty out there. And how the hell do you conclude that I'm claiming superiority over you while literally calling it a bitch move
But here. Here is review of multiple studies.
LINK
And this is back from April. Probably better studies now.
This post was edited on 7/27/20 at 2:41 pm
Posted on 7/27/20 at 2:40 pm to RT1941
quote:
I don't believe a damn thing that comes out of China or Japan.
This shows your ignorance. Japan and China are radically different. China is run by a criminal gang; Japan is a modern transparent democracy.
Posted on 7/27/20 at 2:45 pm to Penrod
quote:
What have YOU seen, out in realty, to make you think seatbelts and airbags prevent deaths?
Both are friggin obvious.
Haha. Your false equivalence some how makes up for the fact that there is little evidence in support of masks reducing infections?
You could look at real world data here in the USA to compare various CoviD metrics with the date of mask mandates.
Take New York for example. Mask mandate went into effect April 17th...at least a full week AFTER every metric of the disease peaked.
Or Connecticut (could be Massachusetts, I forget) where mask mandates went into effect April 21st, exactly the day before hospitalizations peaked. (Hint: think of the lag between infection and hospitalization.)
Do masks work so well that they go back in time to reduces cases? Because that's what would have had to happen in these two states.
Houston had a mask mandate for over a month, yet their cases kept increasing. Same with Los Angeles/California.
You'd figure one of these places would have had decreasing numbers that actually correlated with a mask mandate.
Posted on 7/27/20 at 2:45 pm to Sasquatch Smash
quote:
Hahaha. Are you afraid of what you might find out?
I'm not trying to prove you wrong, I'm wanting you to back up your claims that you can cite all these papers showing the effectiveness of masks in reducing infections.
quote:There are 100 studies I could have cited. Shame on you for arguing something so obvious
Results
A total of 19 randomised controlled trials were included in this study – 8 in community settings, 6 in healthcare settings and 5 as source control. Most of these randomised controlled trials used different interventions and outcome measures. In the community, masks appeared to be effective with and without hand hygiene, and both together are more protective.
Posted on 7/27/20 at 2:46 pm to Magician2
That article has a certain slant to it.
Posted on 7/27/20 at 2:50 pm to boxcarbarney
quote:
Since the mask mandates went into effect here, I have rarely seen anyone in public without one. Yet infection rates keep climbing.
Are you kidding me? I've seen thousands of people together without a mask in sight. Go to the beaches of Florida, and you will see this yourself. Look at the BLM protests. Half seem to be wearing masks, but then half are not. Go into a bar and look around. I had dinner at Porter and Lukes in Metairie twice in the last month. Everyone in the restaurant is carefully wearing masks, but the bar area is stuffed with maskless people.
I'm fine with no masks, and I only wear one when I have to, but you are inventing fictions that everyone is wearing masks.
Posted on 7/27/20 at 2:53 pm to Salmon
quote:
And how the hell do you conclude that I'm claiming superiority over you while literally calling it a bitch move
Here is your quote:
quote:
And if I thought you would actually take the time to read all the studies and/or they might influence your opinion, I might, but like I said, it seems like too much effort for a predictable outcome.
1. You assume I wouldn't read the things you cited, whereas you have obviously taken the time to read things.
2. You assume my opinion is wrong and not based on scientific literature and/or unchangeable by relevant facts, whereas yours is correct and molded by facts/the literature.
Posted on 7/27/20 at 2:54 pm to Salmon
quote:
literally no one has every said masks work 100%, so I have no idea why some of y'all keep acting like this is some great "gotcha"
This may have been covered in your 5 replies, but the CEO of Salesforce, Mark Benioff, essentially said exactly that.
Posted on 7/27/20 at 2:57 pm to Penrod
quote:
but you are inventing fictions that everyone is wearing masks.
Read what I posted again. Slowly this time:
quote:
Since the mask mandates went into effect here, I have rarely seen anyone in public without one.
Me, personally - and this is anecdotal of course - have rarely seen people in public without a mask. I don't frequent BLM marches, so I can't speak to that. I haven't been to the beach yet, but my wife was just there, and from what I understand masks weren't required (who the frick wants to wear a mask on the beach?) but people were keeping fairly distant.
So, no, I'm not making anything up.
eta: and to add to that, I can't control and really don't care what they're doing in 'bama or Florida. There are no beaches in Jefferson Parish (ok, there's Grand Isle). Nor have there been that many BLM rallies. So your argument of "look at the protests and the beaches" doesn't really hold water when I'm talking about local spikes and how we're being chastised for something that appears to be out of our control.
This post was edited on 7/27/20 at 3:14 pm
Posted on 7/27/20 at 2:57 pm to Sasquatch Smash
quote:
I'm wanting you to back up your claims that you can cite all these papers showing the effectiveness of masks in reducing infections.
It won't matter. You won't believe them anyway.
Posted on 7/27/20 at 2:58 pm to Sasquatch Smash
quote:
1. You assume I wouldn't read the things you cited, whereas you have obviously taken the time to read things.
I did, yes, which is based on years of being on the internet.
I'm sorry. I'm jaded.
quote:
2. You assume my opinion is wrong and not based on scientific literature and/or unchangeable by relevant facts, whereas yours is correct and molded by facts/the literature.
I don't assume your opinion is wrong, but more than likely biased towards a certain outcome.
Posted on 7/27/20 at 3:08 pm to lsupride87
quote:
The actual studies I have seen, which involve mask use by actual physicians, show no correlation with lower infection rates and cloth medical masks
How is that even studied?
If the entire premise is that masks help limit your own droplets, how would measuring infection rates among physicians be useful?
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