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re: Did Germany ever have a real chance of beating the Soviet Union?
Posted on 1/27/26 at 7:26 am to Volvagia
Posted on 1/27/26 at 7:26 am to Volvagia
quote:
What you are describing was a result of American supplies flooding their army. Even with less than a month to do so, over 300000 tons of supplies hit their shores in 41. It was over 2.5 million in 42, including 3000 planes and 2000 tanks. They weren’t building up shite.
Nobody was prepared to fight a World War when the Germans started World War 2. If the Germans had invaded the US in 1942 it would’ve been a similar story to the Eastern Front.
0
Posted on 1/27/26 at 7:35 am to Canon951
Spring showers slow german half tracks.
Posted on 1/27/26 at 8:42 am to Canon951
I had the opportunity to meet with Stephen Ambrose briefly in his office. I asked him this very question. He answered "No" very quickly and without a moment's worth of pondering.
I myself pondered the question for many years. Years after he told me this, I agreed with him.
We must keep in mind that Germany decided to transform its economy into fully mobilized Wartime footing in January 1943. Even in 1944, Germany was still importing Polish girls to work as maids, nannys and housekeepers for affluent German homes. Germany never fully mobilized its women to support the war economy.
Germany never put its Reichsbahn railroad system on full wartime footing until 1943.
Stephen Ambrose says "No" to the question, so, I agree with him.
I myself pondered the question for many years. Years after he told me this, I agreed with him.
We must keep in mind that Germany decided to transform its economy into fully mobilized Wartime footing in January 1943. Even in 1944, Germany was still importing Polish girls to work as maids, nannys and housekeepers for affluent German homes. Germany never fully mobilized its women to support the war economy.
Germany never put its Reichsbahn railroad system on full wartime footing until 1943.
Stephen Ambrose says "No" to the question, so, I agree with him.
This post was edited on 1/27/26 at 8:51 am
Posted on 1/27/26 at 8:59 am to Champagne
Why are people so shocked that a schizophrenic fascist regime made stupid decisions and weren’t efficient in things outside killing?
Posted on 1/27/26 at 9:13 am to KiwiHead
Yup and that is where not having long range bombers hurt.
Posted on 1/27/26 at 9:30 am to tide06
quote:
Without lend lease for the Soviet Union and American intervention the Nazis win.
This is the only answer -- according to Stalin and Khrushchev themselves.
"The most important things in this war are the machines... Without the machines we received through Lend-Lease, we would have lost the war." - Joseph Stalin
"I have always been convinced that the only way to help Russia was to send her the maximum amount of supplies... even at the cost of our own interests and at the risk of our own security." Churchill
Facing the threat of invasion themselves, Britain was sending tanks through Uboat waters in winter to the Soviets.
In the winter of 1941, during the Battle of Moscow, nearly 30-40% of the heavy and medium tanks defending the city were actually British-made Matildas and Valentines sent by Churchill.
Posted on 1/27/26 at 9:43 am to SECretariat
The equation for success in WW2 was:
American manufacturing + Soviet manpower + British resolve = victory
If the Brits quit in 1940 or the Japanese dont attack Pearl Harbor the Axis defeat the USSR (and conquer much if not all of Asia) and the cold war becomes the United States vs a vastly more powerful Axis and I'm not convinced we win long term fighting a two front war if the Axis have reliable access to petroleum.
American manufacturing + Soviet manpower + British resolve = victory
If the Brits quit in 1940 or the Japanese dont attack Pearl Harbor the Axis defeat the USSR (and conquer much if not all of Asia) and the cold war becomes the United States vs a vastly more powerful Axis and I'm not convinced we win long term fighting a two front war if the Axis have reliable access to petroleum.
Posted on 1/27/26 at 9:48 am to SECretariat
What was sent:
Trucks/Jeeps - 400,000+ Allowed the Red Army to move faster than the Germans could retreat.
Aircraft - 14,000+ Provided air cover while Soviet factories were being moved East.
Food - 4.5 Million Tons Prevented a total collapse of the Soviet home front due to famine.
Telephones - 1 Million Miles of Wire The "nervous system" of the Soviet army was largely American-made.
The Soviet win/survival on the Eastern front was much more of a joint venture than what's taught.
Trucks/Jeeps - 400,000+ Allowed the Red Army to move faster than the Germans could retreat.
Aircraft - 14,000+ Provided air cover while Soviet factories were being moved East.
Food - 4.5 Million Tons Prevented a total collapse of the Soviet home front due to famine.
Telephones - 1 Million Miles of Wire The "nervous system" of the Soviet army was largely American-made.
The Soviet win/survival on the Eastern front was much more of a joint venture than what's taught.
Posted on 1/27/26 at 10:12 am to SECretariat
Sending food may have been the most important one. Especially once Germany took their bread basket ie ukraine
An army runs on its stomach. Sure, the red army had the numbers but that’s a lot of mouths to feed and they wouldn’t have had the ability to do so if we aren’t supplying them.
Iirc the Soviet’s also had trouble producing the high octane fuel for their planes and we sent them a ton of that which freed their refineries up
The Russians had the numbers for sure but we supplied them to be able to use their numbers advantage to full effect
An army runs on its stomach. Sure, the red army had the numbers but that’s a lot of mouths to feed and they wouldn’t have had the ability to do so if we aren’t supplying them.
Iirc the Soviet’s also had trouble producing the high octane fuel for their planes and we sent them a ton of that which freed their refineries up
The Russians had the numbers for sure but we supplied them to be able to use their numbers advantage to full effect
Posted on 1/27/26 at 10:47 am to ClemsonKitten
quote:
Why are people so shocked that a schizophrenic fascist regime made stupid decisions and weren’t efficient in things outside killing?
Their rapid industrialization was pretty damn efficient.
Posted on 1/27/26 at 12:14 pm to Patsy Parisi
This popped up in my YT
The Imperial War Museum discusses "Operation Bagration" where the Soviets crushed the German Army in the summer of 1944.
It is a microcosm of why Germany would have eventually failed...
- Hitler's meddling
- Soviet improvement under arms
- partisans
- overwhelming numbers in the Soviets favor...
- LendLease 450k trucks alone
YT - Imperial War Museum
The Imperial War Museum discusses "Operation Bagration" where the Soviets crushed the German Army in the summer of 1944.
It is a microcosm of why Germany would have eventually failed...
- Hitler's meddling
- Soviet improvement under arms
- partisans
- overwhelming numbers in the Soviets favor...
- LendLease 450k trucks alone
YT - Imperial War Museum
This post was edited on 1/27/26 at 12:16 pm
Posted on 1/27/26 at 4:11 pm to Canon951
I haven’t read all the pages and comments.
Short answer-Yes. It isn’t by accident that the Commies turned the tide with the help of a crap load of lend lease benefits.
ETA: looks like a bunch of other folks have bought this up also.
Short answer-Yes. It isn’t by accident that the Commies turned the tide with the help of a crap load of lend lease benefits.
ETA: looks like a bunch of other folks have bought this up also.
This post was edited on 1/27/26 at 4:13 pm
Posted on 1/27/26 at 5:27 pm to Patsy Parisi
quote:
Their rapid industrialization was pretty damn efficient.
The Rhine-Ruhr region was already one of the most industrialized regions in the world. All the Nazis did was run a Ponzi scheme, kill, and invade countries.
This post was edited on 1/27/26 at 5:31 pm
Posted on 1/27/26 at 5:57 pm to ClemsonKitten
That doesn’t discount their industrial efficiency.
Posted on 1/27/26 at 6:03 pm to Penrod
quote:
The main Russian resource was the United States of America. Without support from the USA, Germany would probably have conquered Russia.
There’s been a lot of revisionist history the last several years claiming the Soviets won the war basically on their own.
Like you said it was a combined effort but a lot of the revisionist comes from people that are anti-US / British and/or small minded idiots that just look at the final death toll and see the Soviets no.1
Not to mention there was a whole other front on the other side of the world which the Soviet had little to do with up until the end. That was the US and the Chinese (mostly Nationalist with not enough help from Mao’s Communists) doing the fighting. Yet even there I’ve seen numerous people trying to say the Japanese could’ve been defeated without the US
This post was edited on 1/27/26 at 6:07 pm
Posted on 1/27/26 at 8:09 pm to 1BamaRTR
quote:
Yet even there I’ve seen numerous people trying to say the Japanese could’ve been defeated without the US
Yeah, and just a few decades removed from the Japanese beating the piss out of the Russians. IMO, the US was about 60% responsible for winning WW2. Give the Russians 20%, the Canadians and Australians 3% each, the British 10% and spread the rest to the Chinese and whomever else helped out.
Posted on 1/27/26 at 8:34 pm to Canon951
Never invade Russia in the winter - that’s all I got
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