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re: Creationist Ken Ham blames atheists and ‘fake news’ for failing Ark Encounter theme park

Posted on 6/26/17 at 1:38 pm to
Posted by Fun Bunch
New Orleans
Member since May 2008
131768 posts
Posted on 6/26/17 at 1:38 pm to
quote:

And thats fine. We can agree to disagree and I'll tip my hat to you. However your post and several other posts here still baffle me why folks that dont believe the Bible have such a disrespect and utter contempt for those that do. I dont spew anger and angst toward anyone who doesnt agree with me and it further proves to me that really we arent battling facts or theories but a spiritual war is indeed influencing the conversation. If my view is santa claus and fairy tales why are you so passionate with your response? I dont take a stance that Im all knowing. Believe me, Im the worst of sinners. I just believe that I either accept 100% Bible or not at all. I believe 100%. We can shake our fist at God and call people morons for believing the Bible but it doesnt change who God is and will always be.


Newsflash: You cannot read ancient Aramaic. You cannot read Ancient Greek. You literally have no clue what is actually "in the Bible", because you simply read a English version of it that has been translated thousands upon thousands of times from completely different languages, languages that have 10% of the words we do today, by men who did the translating and chose to leave in particular texts and leave out others, often times for historically noted political reasons.

It is ludicrous to believe in the "literal words of the Bible" when you have no clue what the literal words of the Bible actually are.

I am not antagonistic towards Christians in any way. I was raised Catholic and have affection for it even if I am not a true believer. I like to make fun of people that believe the Earth is 6000 years old (no where in the Bible) because it is beyond insane and you have to have zero understanding of science to believe in it.

I DO have a major problem with:

a) people who are intellectually dishonest (ie try to prop up insane "theories" with actual Theories)

b) want their stuff taught in schools. No.

You realize that the main (and first) Christian Church, the Catholic Church, recognizes Theistic Evolution, and Evolution is taught in Catholic Schools, right? Christianity and Evolution, for instance, or not mutually exclusive.

Genesis is a parable. It is a story to help us understand certain truths...not that Adam and Eve actually existed, which is obviously not the truth.

I'm sorry to tell you this, but stories like Adam and Eve, Noah's Ark, etc are just patently false. They didn't happen. We know this for an absolute fact based on the evidence that God has provided us. Sorry.
Posted by Green Chili Tiger
Lurking the Tin Foil Hat Board
Member since Jul 2009
50941 posts
Posted on 6/26/17 at 1:41 pm to
I'm curious, what did the fire marshal list as maximum capacity for the building?
Posted by Collegedropout
Where Northern Mexico meets Dixie
Member since May 2017
5202 posts
Posted on 6/26/17 at 1:44 pm to
you are talking about the old testament. there is no requirement to live by the old testament. people try to do it as respect, but it is by no means a requirement, and nobody says otherwise.
Posted by SSpaniel
Germantown
Member since Feb 2013
29658 posts
Posted on 6/26/17 at 1:44 pm to
quote:

I'm sorry to tell you this, but stories like Adam and Eve, Noah's Ark, etc are just patently false. They didn't happen. We know this for an absolute fact based on the evidence that God has provided us.


What evidence did God provide to us that would ultimately make Him out to be a liar, which He cannot be?
Posted by DavidTheGnome
Monroe
Member since Apr 2015
31597 posts
Posted on 6/26/17 at 1:44 pm to
quote:

Not reading all of that. Can I get a synopsis?



I'm not reading it either, I just know the answer is supposedly in there.
Posted by Fun Bunch
New Orleans
Member since May 2008
131768 posts
Posted on 6/26/17 at 1:46 pm to
quote:

What evidence did God provide to us that would ultimately make Him out to be a liar, which He cannot be?


Genetics. Among many other things, such as a worldwide flood being literally impossible.
Posted by SSpaniel
Germantown
Member since Feb 2013
29658 posts
Posted on 6/26/17 at 1:48 pm to
quote:

Genetics. Among many other things, such as a worldwide flood being literally impossible.


Oh.. Ok,
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
120445 posts
Posted on 6/26/17 at 1:51 pm to
quote:

you are talking about the old testament. there is no requirement to live by the old testament. people try to do it as respect, but it is by no means a requirement, and nobody says otherwise.


Then if you can throw that out, then why not throw out the flood story? I'm sorry, but I doubt even the Westboro Baptist Church takes it 100% literally. If you did, you could read Leviticus and think "hey, I believe in all this. It's not a bad idea." People skip those books on a read through in the Bible and don't realize what horrible things are said in the Torah.
Posted by Collegedropout
Where Northern Mexico meets Dixie
Member since May 2017
5202 posts
Posted on 6/26/17 at 1:53 pm to
throw what out? the bible says that Christians dont have to follow the old testament. try reading it some time if you're going to talk shite.

not following it doesnt mean its not real
This post was edited on 6/26/17 at 1:54 pm
Posted by DavidTheGnome
Monroe
Member since Apr 2015
31597 posts
Posted on 6/26/17 at 1:54 pm to
quote:

you are talking about the old testament. there is no requirement to live by the old testament. people try to do it as respect, but it is by no means a requirement, and nobody says otherwise.



I never knew this, why doesn't the Old Testament count? Isn't that where the Ten Commandments are from, and aren't we supposed to follow them?
This post was edited on 6/26/17 at 1:55 pm
Posted by Lokistale
Member since Aug 2013
1354 posts
Posted on 6/26/17 at 1:57 pm to
quote:

I just believe that I either accept 100% Bible or not at all. I believe 100%.


Can you do both? Can you believe in the Bible, and acknowledge scientific facts based on empirical and evidence-based facts?

If you must accept one and feel you must shun the other, then your faith must be very, very weak. Sorry...
This post was edited on 6/26/17 at 2:00 pm
Posted by MontyFranklyn
T-Town
Member since Jan 2012
24301 posts
Posted on 6/26/17 at 1:57 pm to
I've heard a fundamentalist say that it was wrong to not follow the bible and the laws in the old testament. Therefore, all black people are the spawn of Satan and they should be enslaved. He also went on to say that because white christians did not enslave black people any longer that the laws of God were being broken and for that very reason it was causing all the problems in America today.
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
120445 posts
Posted on 6/26/17 at 1:57 pm to
But Christians should (and many have) come out and say a large portion of their holy text have awful morals in them. You shouldn't take the Bible 100% literally IMO.
Posted by Peazey
Metry
Member since Apr 2012
25427 posts
Posted on 6/26/17 at 1:59 pm to
A lot of this will depend on the teaching of the particular Christiam sect. This is what i was taught in Catholic school. It isn't that the old testament doesn't count. The old testament represents a covenant that God made with humanity. Once a covenant is made it is eternal. The promise always remains. However, the new testament represents a fulfillment of that covenant and all should be interpreted through that fulfillment, with Jesus.

Really all Christian sects should roughly believe in more importance being placed on the new testament and Jesus. That's what makes it Christianity. But I guess it all depends what they are trying to rationalize and justify.
This post was edited on 6/26/17 at 2:01 pm
Posted by SSpaniel
Germantown
Member since Feb 2013
29658 posts
Posted on 6/26/17 at 1:59 pm to
Old Testament law was to point people towards Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ came and fulfilled Old Testament law, replacing it with the Gospel. Jesus Christ's two commandments .... that Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.... replace the 10 commandments in that if you keep those two, then you will keep the 10 commandments.
Posted by Collegedropout
Where Northern Mexico meets Dixie
Member since May 2017
5202 posts
Posted on 6/26/17 at 1:59 pm to
quote:

Two Major Schools of Thought
Now here is the tricky part: developing a theological basis from the Bible on the subject regarding law changes. Let’s look from a bird’s-eye view at the change from the Mosaic to New Covenant. From a big picture, there are two popular theological schools of thought (with many variations). They are dispensational and covenant theology.4 These views have similarities and differences. They differ in the way they look at how the laws change. There is more to it than this, but we will get to that in a moment:

Covenant Theology:
rules apply unless done away with in the next covenant. In other words, each covenant is seen as part of a greater covenant that now has modifications where the rules are still in effect unless abrogated or modified ultimately by the New Testament by God.5
Dispensational Theology:
previous rules tend to be done away with in the New Covenant unless reiterated in that covenant. In other words, the New Dispensation generally does away with previous Mosaic rules because those rules were given to a specific group of people, and new rules need to be stated.6
Both of these schools of thought affect the way Old Testament laws are viewed. Both sides agree on many laws because so much was reiterted, changed, or commented on in the New Testament.7 But some things went away, such as the sacrificial stuff in Leviticus 5:5–6, which Christ fulfilled. Both of these schools of thought answer why Christians do not adhere to all the Mosaic laws.

There are Christians whose theologies do not fit into either of these camps or are variations of them. For example, within Dispensationalism there is (among others) Classic Dispensationalism, Revised Dispensational, Progressive Dispensationalism, and one theologian even used the term “Leaky” Dispensationalism.

On the other side of the coin, there is New Covenant Theology which finds some middle ground between Dispensationalism and Covenant Theology, but starts with a Covenant Theology basis as opposed to Dispensational basis.

This short response keeps me from going into the details of each position and their nuances. Furthermore, Answers in Genesis does not take a position on this theological debate.8 We encourage people to know what they believe on this debate as the authors and editors know where they stand on this issue, but have refrained from giving those positions favor in this response.

From here, we let your denomination go further. So if you are interested in pursuing these theologies in more detail, then I suggest you contact your local pastor and elders and do further research to get into the finer details. This is all said to teach the reader that Christians have a biblical basis for certain law changes and can easily answer the claim that Christians are walking contradictions.




LINK
Posted by Fun Bunch
New Orleans
Member since May 2008
131768 posts
Posted on 6/26/17 at 2:00 pm to
quote:

Oh.. Ok,


I mean, we know that the genetic bottlenecks created by an Ark situation are impossible and not true.
Posted by Collegedropout
Where Northern Mexico meets Dixie
Member since May 2017
5202 posts
Posted on 6/26/17 at 2:00 pm to
you cant believe in the bible and also believe we started out as tadpoles or whatever evolutionists believe.

if you just think that things evolve and adapt to their surroundings over time (with the help of God), that could be a form of evolution that most Christians would accept
This post was edited on 6/26/17 at 2:02 pm
Posted by Lokistale
Member since Aug 2013
1354 posts
Posted on 6/26/17 at 2:02 pm to
quote:

you cant believe in the bible and also believe we started out as tadpoles or whatever evolutionists believe.



Why?
Posted by ShortyRob
Member since Oct 2008
82116 posts
Posted on 6/26/17 at 2:02 pm to
quote:

“Sadly, they are influencing business investors and others in such a negative way that they may prevent Grant County, Kentucky, from achieving the economic recovery that its officials and residents have been seeking,”


If the county was banking on this to do it, then frankly, they deserve to be poor.
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