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Started By
Message
re: Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) ***W.H.O. DECLARES A GLOBAL PANDEMIC***
Posted on 3/10/20 at 1:05 pm to transcend
Posted on 3/10/20 at 1:05 pm to transcend
“I'm not an expert on this virus or any other virus for that matter. I am a US trained OBGYN Ex-Pat living in Verona Italy (Northern Italy, in the hot zone). I was asked to share my thoughts so here goes.
We all started off thinking that this was some overblown flu, making jokes and not understanding why China was in lockdown. Then the cases began to multiply at a freakish rate. We believed this was because we were testing EVERYONE and finding cases that had no symptoms. Then the ICU’s of some parts of Lombardy (all around Milan) began to fill up and overflow. Today March 9th 2020 some hospitals in those areas have implemented a triage system as to who will be intubated and who will not (people over 70 and or with co-morbidities).
Let me back up a little. This is not a zombie apocalypse. The actual percentage of people dying is really low. Children and young adults seem to not be affected with more than flu-like symptoms. In the beginning only elderly with comorbidities or smokers were getting really sick, just like a really bad influenza outbreak. This was all great until younger (think 50’s) and relatively healthy people began to become very ill in addition to the large number of already sick.
The real problem is 3-fold here in Italy, 2 virus related. (again my opinion)
1) It seems to be stunningly infective. Surviving 12 hours on metal surfaces (that’s right, door handles and all).
2) Here, about 10% of the infected need ICU beds and around 4-5% need ventilators due to ARDS. This is the BIG BIG problem and why Italy quarantined 16 million people and why multi-billion-euro soccer games are played in empty stadiums (What is 4-5% of 16 million? We don’t have that many ventilators).
Italy is not a third world country and our hospitals are set up pretty much like the ones in the US. You might debate that we have a lower threshold for admission and longer stays vs the US but this is a RESOURCE ISSUE. There are not enough ventilators for the number of people who need them. This is due to sheer volume and THIS is the REAL problem. This is why countries are in lockdown and freaking out. This is a real medical emergency and doctors are now deciding who lives (gets intubated) and who does not. Couple this with the median age of the sick becoming younger and things get worse.
3) Italians (the people, not doctors) are undisciplined in some things. They have been given guidelines, like stay at home as much as possible and many do whatever in spite of this. The ski resorts are full for example. This helps to continue the spread of the disease. On the other hand, at the supermarket the other day, for the first time in 15 years I saw a single file line with people 3 feet away from each other without police or guns involved.
So: The faster the virus is contained the lower number of ventilators will be needed.
1. Wash. Your. Hands. Wash them so much. If you can’t wash use the gels and hand sanitizers. Maybe stop shaking hands, some kind of elbow bump would be cool.
2. Don’t pick your nose. Or put your fingers in your mouth, on your lips, or in your eyes.
3. Surgical masks seem to be enough to limit the spread AND protect you from disease. FFP2 / 3 only if you are working directly on a Covid-19 patient. Also do not put an FFP mask on a sick person, most have valves and that allows the virus OUT – provides NO protection for others.
4. Sanitize the objects that lots of other people touch,
5. Social distancing. Do it. This means keeping people apart from one another (preferably 6 feet apart, and sanitizing shared objects).
6. Travel is about to be screwed. Plan for it and around it. I would not say travel somewhere I would not be happy to be stuck at for 3-6 weeks.
7. If you are sick, stay home. For the love of all that is holy. Stay at home.
8. If school or other events are cancelled and or you are asked to limit non-essential movement. Just do it.
I didn't write this for professional purposes, I am not an expert but I do have a brain (at least I think I do). Hope this helps in some way.
I LEAVE YOU WITH: THIS IS NOT A NORMAL FLU.
Don’t panic, toilet paper will continue to be made, at the same time do not BLOW THIS OFF.
Let’s hope warm weather comes very very soon.
J.Stefano Lehman MD, OBGYN
We all started off thinking that this was some overblown flu, making jokes and not understanding why China was in lockdown. Then the cases began to multiply at a freakish rate. We believed this was because we were testing EVERYONE and finding cases that had no symptoms. Then the ICU’s of some parts of Lombardy (all around Milan) began to fill up and overflow. Today March 9th 2020 some hospitals in those areas have implemented a triage system as to who will be intubated and who will not (people over 70 and or with co-morbidities).
Let me back up a little. This is not a zombie apocalypse. The actual percentage of people dying is really low. Children and young adults seem to not be affected with more than flu-like symptoms. In the beginning only elderly with comorbidities or smokers were getting really sick, just like a really bad influenza outbreak. This was all great until younger (think 50’s) and relatively healthy people began to become very ill in addition to the large number of already sick.
The real problem is 3-fold here in Italy, 2 virus related. (again my opinion)
1) It seems to be stunningly infective. Surviving 12 hours on metal surfaces (that’s right, door handles and all).
2) Here, about 10% of the infected need ICU beds and around 4-5% need ventilators due to ARDS. This is the BIG BIG problem and why Italy quarantined 16 million people and why multi-billion-euro soccer games are played in empty stadiums (What is 4-5% of 16 million? We don’t have that many ventilators).
Italy is not a third world country and our hospitals are set up pretty much like the ones in the US. You might debate that we have a lower threshold for admission and longer stays vs the US but this is a RESOURCE ISSUE. There are not enough ventilators for the number of people who need them. This is due to sheer volume and THIS is the REAL problem. This is why countries are in lockdown and freaking out. This is a real medical emergency and doctors are now deciding who lives (gets intubated) and who does not. Couple this with the median age of the sick becoming younger and things get worse.
3) Italians (the people, not doctors) are undisciplined in some things. They have been given guidelines, like stay at home as much as possible and many do whatever in spite of this. The ski resorts are full for example. This helps to continue the spread of the disease. On the other hand, at the supermarket the other day, for the first time in 15 years I saw a single file line with people 3 feet away from each other without police or guns involved.
So: The faster the virus is contained the lower number of ventilators will be needed.
1. Wash. Your. Hands. Wash them so much. If you can’t wash use the gels and hand sanitizers. Maybe stop shaking hands, some kind of elbow bump would be cool.
2. Don’t pick your nose. Or put your fingers in your mouth, on your lips, or in your eyes.
3. Surgical masks seem to be enough to limit the spread AND protect you from disease. FFP2 / 3 only if you are working directly on a Covid-19 patient. Also do not put an FFP mask on a sick person, most have valves and that allows the virus OUT – provides NO protection for others.
4. Sanitize the objects that lots of other people touch,
5. Social distancing. Do it. This means keeping people apart from one another (preferably 6 feet apart, and sanitizing shared objects).
6. Travel is about to be screwed. Plan for it and around it. I would not say travel somewhere I would not be happy to be stuck at for 3-6 weeks.
7. If you are sick, stay home. For the love of all that is holy. Stay at home.
8. If school or other events are cancelled and or you are asked to limit non-essential movement. Just do it.
I didn't write this for professional purposes, I am not an expert but I do have a brain (at least I think I do). Hope this helps in some way.
I LEAVE YOU WITH: THIS IS NOT A NORMAL FLU.
Don’t panic, toilet paper will continue to be made, at the same time do not BLOW THIS OFF.
Let’s hope warm weather comes very very soon.
J.Stefano Lehman MD, OBGYN
Posted on 3/10/20 at 1:05 pm to transcend
For those that lose old family members this is tragic
In the grand scheme of things when only .0000125 of the worlds population dies from this it’s a burger full of fricking nothing. I am sorry if you think that is callous , it’s just the truth
In the grand scheme of things when only .0000125 of the worlds population dies from this it’s a burger full of fricking nothing. I am sorry if you think that is callous , it’s just the truth
This post was edited on 3/10/20 at 1:06 pm
Posted on 3/10/20 at 1:05 pm to More beer please
quote:
The mortality rate for anyone under 50 is like .2%
That's still really high for a contagious disease like that. Thay would mean 1/500 people under 50 that gets it dies. And that's leaving out those that have to get serious medical care and other complications.
Posted on 3/10/20 at 1:06 pm to SaintsandTigers
quote:
My wife just isn’t a huge pussy that actually studies medicine That’s why some in this thread disagree with her
I never called her a pussy. In fact I think she has more balls than brains.
This virus can cause more potential damage than the flu that’s why people who also “study medicine” are acting differently. Because the overall number of deaths hasn’t exceeded the flu within 3 months of its existence is trivial.
Posted on 3/10/20 at 1:07 pm to Malik Agar
It’s also inflated due to many that have it and may be think it’s the flu, not show any symptoms, etc.
Posted on 3/10/20 at 1:07 pm to madamsquirrel
Currently drinking in a pub. Not a single f*ck given here, for the most part.
Wash your hands. Deal with the inevitable.
Taking precautions, not too stressed.
Wash your hands. Deal with the inevitable.
Taking precautions, not too stressed.
Posted on 3/10/20 at 1:07 pm to Hogwall Jackson
quote:
Jesus. Why is it hitting Italy so hard with deaths and not everywhere else?
Their medical system is overwhelmed. That is the point that a lot of us are trying to convene to the "muh flu" posters.
If a region has one critical/severe patient per ICU bed/Ventialtaion machine, that area will have a low death rate. But when you start getting more critical/severe patients than the resources to treat them, it gets ugly fast.
When you read the reports coming out of Italian ICUs, it is quite sad. They are triaging patients based on age/life expectancy to determine who gets to use vents. Those that don't get those resources are basically made comfortable as they die.
This post was edited on 3/10/20 at 1:17 pm
Posted on 3/10/20 at 1:08 pm to tigerskin
quote:Sounds awfully similar dont it?
We all started off thinking that this was some overblown flu, making jokes and not understanding why China was in lockdown.
I like how someone downvoted you. They literally downvoted a first hand experience because it didnt fit their narrative.
This post was edited on 3/10/20 at 1:10 pm
Posted on 3/10/20 at 1:11 pm to tgr4ever
That’s pretty pathetic, isn’t it?
Posted on 3/10/20 at 1:12 pm to slackster
quote:
quote:
There’s a good chance we will see quarantine zones in the US. That’s a pretty big deal.
![]()
No, we won't.

Posted on 3/10/20 at 1:15 pm to tigerskin
quote:The panicking pussy brigade likes to always say "we arent panicking or fear mongering, just posting numbers"
That’s pretty pathetic, isn’t it?
well her you go for just posting numbers
.0062% of chinese people have been infected
.00024% of chinese people have died
That just fricking numbers, so dont get mad
Posted on 3/10/20 at 1:16 pm to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
That’s a pretty terrible metric to judge a novel virus by. Is that the depth of her thinking on this topic? Nothing burger until total deaths exceed flu, then what is it?
its better than causing mass hysteria and fricking up day to day life over a late season cold going around
Posted on 3/10/20 at 1:16 pm to Jon Ham
I guess reading is hard... Containment =/= Quarantine
I’m not saying we wont see a quarantine at some point, but this is not it. People still free to leave as they see fit. National guard is there to help with testing and then cleaning.
I’m not saying we wont see a quarantine at some point, but this is not it. People still free to leave as they see fit. National guard is there to help with testing and then cleaning.
This post was edited on 3/10/20 at 1:17 pm
Posted on 3/10/20 at 1:16 pm to Jon Ham
The reasonable people here said it from the beginning:
It’s not the flu, but it’s not the apocalypse either. The virus forms hotspots that will overwhelm hospitals in a very close proximity to that hotspot. Normal life should go on for 99% of the country but behave like it’s a bad flu season. The areas of hotspots will have to been contained to some degree until the system can catch up. Then once it does the containment goes away and if another hotspot pops up, same thing.
I literally said this weeks ago and we still have the same morons in here swinging dicks with no reasonable arguments to support their positions
It’s not the flu, but it’s not the apocalypse either. The virus forms hotspots that will overwhelm hospitals in a very close proximity to that hotspot. Normal life should go on for 99% of the country but behave like it’s a bad flu season. The areas of hotspots will have to been contained to some degree until the system can catch up. Then once it does the containment goes away and if another hotspot pops up, same thing.
I literally said this weeks ago and we still have the same morons in here swinging dicks with no reasonable arguments to support their positions
This post was edited on 3/10/20 at 1:17 pm
Posted on 3/10/20 at 1:16 pm to tigerskin
quote:He wasnt even apocalyptic either! He just stated that it should be taken very seriously, because it will kill a lot of people if its not. And people dont even want to hear that.
That’s pretty pathetic, isn’t it?
Posted on 3/10/20 at 1:18 pm to SaintsandTigers
quote:You honestly need to be fricking banned. its obvious your lying about your wife's profession too.
The panicking pussy brigade likes to always say "we arent panicking or fear mongering, just posting numbers"
well her you go for just posting numbers
.0062% of chinese people have been infected
.00024% of chinese people have died
That just fricking numbers, so dont get mad
Posted on 3/10/20 at 1:18 pm to tgr4ever
quote:So you dont like the posting of numbers now? And you want me banned for posting actual numbers
You honestly need to be fricking banned. its obvious your lying about your wife's profession too.
Makes sense you are terrified
This post was edited on 3/10/20 at 1:19 pm
Posted on 3/10/20 at 1:19 pm to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
It’s not the flu, but it’s not the apocalypse either.
yall are certainly attempting to make it out to be the apocalypse
Posted on 3/10/20 at 1:20 pm to TigerChief10
quote:"They are just posting numbers"
yall are certainly attempting to make it out to be the apocalypse
But god forbid I post numbers, I SHOULD BE BANNED!!
Posted on 3/10/20 at 1:20 pm to tgr4ever
That’s what you think someone should be banned for? Lol
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