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Posted on 10/17/16 at 11:58 am to SabiDojo
quote:
I disagree. Everywhere departments are catching shite about the way they great black men. That strikes at the heart of their training. BLM alleges systemic racism and that cops will kill blacks when they shouldn't. And now they make you pay dearly for it. They riot, threaten your family, your job, everything. And you have a US Attorney's Office who indulges these mobs.
It's not so otherworldly to postulate that she knew what to do but knew the Hell she would unjustly endure afterwards
This.
Some people's expectations of cops are completely unrealistic. They always expect them to be superheroes and when they aren't people always respond "well they need to find another job, then". I'd love to see if these critics could ever live up to their own golden standards.
Posted on 10/17/16 at 11:59 am to upgrayedd
Not necessarily. There's a generally accepted "21 ft" rule. If the suspect is acting in a hostile or threatening manner within 21 feet, cops are typically trained to draw their weapon. Drawing their weapon doesn't necessarily mean they're going to shoot.
There is no such thing as a 21 foot rule. That was a study done years ago and criminal defense attorneys and civil plaintiffs lawyers latched onto it as if it is a hard and fast rule. There is no such thing, no police academy that I'm aware of teaches that nonsense, and it needs to die an Internet death.
There is no such thing as a 21 foot rule. That was a study done years ago and criminal defense attorneys and civil plaintiffs lawyers latched onto it as if it is a hard and fast rule. There is no such thing, no police academy that I'm aware of teaches that nonsense, and it needs to die an Internet death.
Posted on 10/17/16 at 12:00 pm to SabiDojo
(no message)
This post was edited on 10/17/16 at 12:02 pm
Posted on 10/17/16 at 12:02 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
Possibly not, but there's an excellent chance that, if that is the real reason, it caused her to hesitate and all the perp needs is a small opportunity to exploit it.
Have you seen the whole video? The guy is resisting, they are fighting, they go into the street, and then he falls and she falls on top of him because she is holding on to the handcuffs. I think she's unconscious from there on out. She also had a partner there and other cops showed up and none of them decided to use their weapons.
I simply do not believe she made a conscious decision to avoid deadly force due to a fear of backlash, but it makes for a convenient explanation at a time like this.
Posted on 10/17/16 at 12:02 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
In what situations? In some, yes it is. I do understand her reluctance to shoot here but it would have been justified.
It was completely justified in the Michael Brown and Alton Sterling shootings, yet we've seen how that has played out. That is the point, we are at a sad state now and it enables instances like this to happen. This will begin to happen regularly.
Posted on 10/17/16 at 12:07 pm to SabiDojo
quote:
It's not so otherworldly to postulate that she knew what to do but knew the Hell she would unjustly endure afterwards
It isn't crazy to suggest she worries about those things, but you're going to have a tough time telling me she was going through that thought process as she's fighting with the guy and she and her partner are exchanging punches with the man.
It may have manifested itself in her reluctance to do anything, but that falls back on poor training IMO. Her instincts took over, and those instincts and those of the officers with her were to do nothing.
Posted on 10/17/16 at 12:09 pm to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
There is no such thing as a 21 foot rule. That was a study done years ago and criminal defense attorneys and civil plaintiffs lawyers latched onto it as if it is a hard and fast rule. There is no such thing, no police academy that I'm aware of teaches that nonsense, and it needs to die an Internet death.
quote:
For decades now many American officers have heard use-of-force instructors discuss the "21-Foot Rule" during officer safety, firearms, and deadly force training. As a use-of-force instructor and a practicing forensic police practices expert, I have also trained and testified to this concept myself.
quote:
Ron Martinelli, Ph.D., is a nationally renowned forensic criminologist specializing in police death cases, use of force, human factors, and psychophysiology
LINK
Posted on 10/17/16 at 12:12 pm to slackster
quote:
I simply do not believe she made a conscious decision to avoid deadly force due to a fear of backlash, but it makes for a convenient explanation at a time like this.
I never said she did. I said it's completely within the realm of possibility that it caused her to hesitate or make a mistake and it was exploited by the perp.
Posted on 10/17/16 at 12:18 pm to slackster
quote:
It isn't crazy to suggest she worries about those things, but you're going to have a tough time telling me she was going through that thought process as she's fighting with the guy and she and her partner are exchanging punches with the man.
If it's constantly on your mind, you don't need to switch gears to think about it in the moment. It influences your every decision.
quote:
It may have manifested itself in her reluctance to do anything, but that falls back on poor training IMO
I completely disagree. As I said earlier, look at Darren Wilson. He followed his training and was justified yet his life was ruined and a town destroyed. You are completely ignoring how the media reacts to these incidents. They give the benefit of the doubt to the perp and BLM because it makes a hot news topic. Facts are very rarely relevant in the initial stages of these stories.
Posted on 10/17/16 at 12:30 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
I completely disagree. As I said earlier, look at Darren Wilson. He followed his training and was justified yet his life was ruined and a town destroyed. You are completely ignoring how the media reacts to these incidents. They give the benefit of the doubt to the perp and BLM because it makes a hot news topic. Facts are very rarely relevant in the initial stages of these stories.
Yeah I guess my point is getting a little muddled. I believe that she and other officers are terrified of being involved in such a situation even if they follow their training to the t. However, I don't believe she weighed any options and chose to refrain from deadly force and take a beating instead. I think she just found herself in a bad situation and by the time deadly force was justified she was unconscious on the ground.
I've seen both the body cam and the dashboard footage in their entirety and I don't see a woman who was making some prolonged decision to refrain from deadly force. It just went from "typical" resisting to the woman being incapacitated.
The other officers who chose not to shoot would have a much better "case" about being influenced by the BLM burden IMO.
Posted on 10/17/16 at 12:39 pm to beantown
I've said from the beginning, black lives matter people aren't looking for equal treatment. The stats don't back up that they are being treated wrong.
They want the cops to not be able to protect themselves. All the proof you need are the actual police shootings that they are protesting.
They want the cops to not be able to protect themselves. All the proof you need are the actual police shootings that they are protesting.
Posted on 10/17/16 at 12:40 pm to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
There is no such thing as a 21 foot rule. That was a study done years ago and criminal defense attorneys and civil plaintiffs lawyers latched onto it as if it is a hard and fast rule. There is no such thing, no police academy that I'm aware of teaches that nonsense, and it needs to die an Internet death.
The training I received did in fact teach the 21ft rule but taught it as a 30 ft rule.
Posted on 10/17/16 at 6:39 pm to SabiDojo
She thought that was best. It wasn't.
Posted on 10/17/16 at 7:14 pm to upgrayedd
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
You don't rely on the bad guy to not beat you to death.
You don't rely on the bad guy to not beat you to death.
Posted on 10/17/16 at 7:17 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
As I said earlier, look at Darren Wilson. He followed his training and was justified yet his life was ruined
But he survived.
The #1 rule is that you go home to your family at the end of your shift....you don't take chances with your life.
Posted on 10/17/16 at 7:20 pm to slackster
quote:
but you're going to have a tough time telling me she was going through that thought process as she's fighting with the guy
That is a mental choice you make before you get in that scenario.
You have to be mentally prepared to defend yourself.
Those fears caused her not to be mentally prepared to fight for her life. She went into that scenario mentally un-prepared to defend herself.
Posted on 10/17/16 at 7:50 pm to theenemy
quote:
But he survived.
The #1 rule is that you go home to your family at the end of your shift....you don't take chances with your life.
With as bold as BLM is now and with as much attention and coddling as they get from the media and politicians, it's not out of bounds to be worried for your family's safety due to a justified shooting.
Posted on 10/17/16 at 8:12 pm to upgrayedd
I take it that she sacrificed her good health so that this drugged out criminal would not be canonized by BLM. It's a shame that a person went to work and sustained serious injuries in the course of performing her duties. How many times must this occur before BLM focuses on protecting its' supporters by speaking out against committing crimes and resisting arrest rather than speaking out against the law and those who enforce it?
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