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Message

re: Brett Kavanaugh is certain a Louisiana law is rooted in racism.

Posted on 10/8/19 at 10:53 am to
Posted by ragincajun77
Member since Jul 2019
911 posts
Posted on 10/8/19 at 10:53 am to
I was the jury foreman on a 2nd degree murder trial. During deliberations we had one black Male who said he wanted to vote not guilty. The rest of the jury wanted to go back in with a conviction based on a 11 to 1 vote but I held out until we could get unanimous consensus. In hindsight, I'm really glad I did that

I wasnt comfortable sending a guy to Angola for life without the chance for parole on a non-unanimous vote
Posted by dallastigers
Member since Dec 2003
10981 posts
Posted on 10/8/19 at 10:54 am to
quote:

How did this case get there? Who challenged the change?


Or will this also end up effecting all those in jail who didn’t have unanimous jury convictions.

Problem with not being unanimous is less being biased against defendant these days (though it seems like it would have also made it easier in past to convict whites for crimes against blacks if jury ends up with 1 or 2 closet racists) and more overcoming ignorance and/or laziness of jurists, courts, judges, & lawyers. Sometimes that can be racial where someone will still not vote to convict their own race of obvious crimes, but other times it’s just being ignorant of subject matter. Most people on jury don’t want to be there and the ones that do are probably worse.

I think the 6 to 0 being better than 12 to 1 or 2 is a weak argument, and I don’t agree that anyone has a constitutional right to a unanimous jury decision. Kavanaugh was the best the left could hope for out potential pool reported & not who I had hoped would be chosen (still think former justice played a part in retirement agreement), and the left falsely destroyed him because of Trump & abortion. If he had just been a member of La Raza and made sexist & racist comments maybe they would have supported him more.
This post was edited on 10/8/19 at 11:13 am
Posted by N2cars
Member since Feb 2008
40322 posts
Posted on 10/8/19 at 10:55 am to
*jibe
Posted by Buckeye Jeaux
Member since May 2018
17756 posts
Posted on 10/8/19 at 10:56 am to
Non-unanimous criminal convictions are unconstitutional... no matter the reason.
Posted by EZE Tiger Fan
Member since Jul 2004
55457 posts
Posted on 10/8/19 at 10:58 am to
Long ago, Democrats put in racist law.

Years later, a Republican SC judge, that Democrats tried to railroad with false accusations, overturns their racism.

So much irony here. So, so thick....
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
96242 posts
Posted on 10/8/19 at 10:58 am to
quote:

If he wins, a lot of convictions may have to be overturned.


Which is bullshite - if the standard had been 12-0, it's possible many of them would have deliberated until conviction.

Obviously, some of them would have hung and unlikely any of them would have acquitted - but now, changing the rules post facto will benefit lots of guilty baws.

And, for the record, I would be, generally, in favor of unanimous verdicts in criminal cases.
Posted by AlxTgr
Kyre Banorg
Member since Oct 2003
88009 posts
Posted on 10/8/19 at 11:00 am to
quote:

Non-unanimous criminal convictions are unconstitutional
Well, now they are.
Posted by Aristo
Colorado
Member since Jan 2007
13292 posts
Posted on 10/8/19 at 11:00 am to
quote:

I don't think that racism is the reason we held on to easier convictions, even though racism was the historical reason for the rule.


Why? Would this not have the same outcome if a white man was convicted on a non-unanimous decision? Or maybe it's sexist?
Posted by ragincajun77
Member since Jul 2019
911 posts
Posted on 10/8/19 at 11:01 am to
This is probably true. When I was on a jury for a murder trial the initial vote was 11 to convict, one to acquit. Everyone wanted to call it a day because that's all we needed but it made us stay until we were all in agreement
Posted by Loup
Ferriday
Member since Apr 2019
17684 posts
Posted on 10/8/19 at 11:07 am to
quote:

I don't think it's as much institutional racism anymore as much as it is laziness.


That's a good point especially considering the amount of work that would go in to changing it that you further explained. I didn't think of that.
Posted by dallastigers
Member since Dec 2003
10981 posts
Posted on 10/8/19 at 11:08 am to
quote:

Non-unanimous criminal convictions are unconstitutional... no matter the reason.


Unless you are talking about the recent changes to State law, Where is this stated in US constitution?
Posted by Teddy Ruxpin
Member since Oct 2006
40991 posts
Posted on 10/8/19 at 11:20 am to
quote:


If 1 out of 6 jurors believe the state hasn't proven its case beyond a reasonable doubt, I could not in good conscience approve of sending the Defendant to prison


I don't disagree but I want to clarify this.

Sometimes the jurors who don't agree with the jury's findings aren't saying he's not guilty.

They may think he's guilty of a lesser charge.

Real life example for me:

10 agreed to murder 2
2 agreed manslaughter. (They didn't really understand manslaughter but that's besides the point)

No one thought he didn't kill the victim. We didn't have to get 12 so no need to keep everyone there either for unanimous verdict.

Doesn't really change one's opinion of unanimous verdicts but thought it should be noted not every 10/11 verdict means a juror thought defendant was "innocent".
This post was edited on 10/8/19 at 11:23 am
Posted by Areddishfish
The Wild West
Member since Oct 2015
6538 posts
Posted on 10/8/19 at 11:34 am to
Cuz Orange Man Bad!
Posted by tketaco
Sunnyside, Houston
Member since Jan 2010
21809 posts
Posted on 10/8/19 at 11:35 am to
Well it's Louisiana law so it's gotta be fricked up.
Posted by DeafJam73
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
19122 posts
Posted on 10/8/19 at 11:45 am to
I don’t like racism as a justification of repealing or enforcing any law. However, I do agree that a conviction should be brought by a unanimous decision from a jury. Either the state has the evidence to convict the defendant or not.
Posted by Fat and Happy
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2013
20245 posts
Posted on 10/8/19 at 12:01 pm to
So, do other races have the law?
Posted by Jim Rockford
Member since May 2011
106059 posts
Posted on 10/8/19 at 12:03 pm to
So Kavabaw turned out to be a Kavanaw?
Posted by MikeBRLA
Baton Rouge
Member since Jun 2005
17242 posts
Posted on 10/8/19 at 12:12 pm to
quote:

Either the state has the evidence to convict the defendant or not.


You say this as though all jurors understand the evidence and are acting in good faith. Sadly that is not the case.

Many will vote one way or another regardless of the evidence presented.

The non-unanimous verdict essentially sets aside those jurors’ votes and lets fairness and common sense prevail.
Posted by CoachMoorGut
Member since Sep 2018
725 posts
Posted on 10/8/19 at 12:27 pm to
quote:

If 1 out of 6 jurors believe the state hasn't proven its case beyond a reasonable doubt, I could not in good conscience approve of sending the Defendant to prison


I'm sympathetic to this reasoning but the pessimist in me says not everyone in a jury is acting in the interest of Justice.

In addition, Teddy raised a good point where the Jury agrees a defendent is guilty, but dispute the crimes severity.

I'm not convinced that allowing a 10/12 conviction is the answer, but there has to be a better answer than a retrial every 10-2 or 11-1 decision. Excessive retrials put unnecessary fiscal burden on the state(and thus the taxpayer), the defendent(or the state again, if a PD is used) and also clogs the judicial system, making it more and more difficult for a "right to speedy trial" to be obliged.
Posted by Steadyhands
Slightly above I-10
Member since May 2016
7203 posts
Posted on 10/8/19 at 12:30 pm to
Wasn't this law on the election ballot at the same time as the last presidential election.
This post was edited on 10/8/19 at 12:41 pm
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