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Started By
Message
re: Boy Scouts May File for Bankruptcy Reorganization
Posted on 12/13/18 at 12:06 pm to Klark Kent
Posted on 12/13/18 at 12:06 pm to Klark Kent
quote:
Well, that’s certainly one opinion...
Dude uses immoral in quotations, so I guess nothing is truly immoral IHO
0
Posted on 12/13/18 at 12:07 pm to LSUFanHouston
Excuse me, the official name is now Gender Inclusive Scouts BSA
Posted on 12/13/18 at 12:10 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
Is it really discrimination when a private club (one with fees and a structure) allows to base membership on whatever factors they want?
Legally? Of course not. Private entities can associate with whomever they wish. Of course, they have to pay the price in the market, which is what was happening with the BSA. Being exclusive doesn't work when you need cash.
But you can have discrimination (bias, whatever you want to call it) without crossing a legal line. That's where the BSA was.
quote:
Maybe if everyone stopped making every choice/purchase/decision a reflection of some political stance, which is driven by people harassing organizations, then said organizations caving in, we wouldn't be putting companies in disadvantageous conditions to have to make said decisions.
By caving to one group, instead of staying core to their mission, they made it impossible for other groups to support them. You don't think that's messed up to begin with? And way more messed up than who the BSA was before all of this. Having to force relatively successful organizations to do what you want via bullying is where we are though.
Here, here. I agree completely. BSA didn't make this mess and were forced into decisions that had no good answer. But fixing that problem is at a much higher level than a single company/group, and I don't see it changing anytime soon.
Too many groups have the "you are with us or you are against us" mentality.
Posted on 12/13/18 at 12:13 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:
Legally? Of course not. Private entities can associate with whomever they wish. Of course, they have to pay the price in the market, which is what was happening with the BSA. Being exclusive doesn't work when you need cash.
And it didn't stop. So, diversity isn't a cure all.
quote:
But you can have discrimination (bias, whatever you want to call it) without crossing a legal line. That's where the BSA was.
And without crossing a moral line. It's fine to say "This club is for ______ and _____ only."
There just isn't anything wrong with that.
quote:
Here, here. I agree completely. BSA didn't make this mess and were forced into decisions that had no good answer. But fixing that problem is at a much higher level than a single company/group, and I don't see it changing anytime soon.
Too many groups have the "you are with us or you are against us" mentality.
It would take more than a few companies to hold ground, and someone who could have garnered more support for holding ground. While I don't think the BSA could have done it alone, they were in one of those positions that COULD have cemented a lot of people to a cause. Product-Driven companies aren't really in that boat.
This post was edited on 12/13/18 at 12:27 pm
Posted on 12/13/18 at 12:17 pm to tommy2tone1999
quote:
They did it to themselves. I raised two Eagles, and when BSA decided to violate their own standards and openly allow gays into its ranks, it was the beginning of the end. They had just won the right to choose their own membership in a long fought legal battle that went all the way to the Supreme Court, and then caved into special interest groups. From there it only got worse.
Why can't gay people be boy scouts? Pretty much every boy scout I ever knew was gay.
Posted on 12/13/18 at 12:18 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
And without crossing a moral line. It's fine to say "This club is for ______ and _____ only."
There just isn't anything wrong with that.
I don't agree with that line of thinking... but I do agree it's not 'wrong" per se.
The old line NOLA Mardi Gras orgnizatations can discriminate all they want, because they have more cash than they will ever need.
When you accept those million dollar contributions, there are stings attached.
Posted on 12/13/18 at 12:24 pm to jlovel7
quote:
Why can't gay people be boy scouts? Pretty much every boy scout I ever knew was gay.
That's not the question. The question should be, when you have so many faith-based organizations that sponsor troops, can you really afford to alienate them and still stay afloat? It doesn't matter how much corporate sponsorship or access to facilities you have. If you're already experiencing a drop in enrollment, and then piss off the chartering organizations, and parents by such actions then the money and resources won't matter. You can't have Boy Scouts without enough scouts.
Posted on 12/13/18 at 12:29 pm to jlovel7
quote:
Why can't gay people be boy scouts? Pretty much every boy scout I ever knew was gay.
There's another thread on the Poli Board about this, too.
I was a boy scout and I'm gay -- so I'm sure my opinion will differ from many here. Maybe times have changed since the early 90s when I was a scout, granted I wasn't out (none of us were interested in any agenda or anything regarding sexuality -- we were kids).
What I was interested in was regular boy stuff -- camping, building things, competing, learning to accomplish goals through teamwork, earning badges, learning how to be a young man. Sexuality was never a part of it.
Boy Scouts got into trouble not when it "allowed" gay scouts (trust me, there were gay scouts long before they "allowed" them). BSA got into trouble when it started changing its core ideals and program to cater to everyone and special interests.
Boy Scouts, as I knew it, was about you changing your behavior and habits to fit its standards, not the other way around.
Posted on 12/13/18 at 12:36 pm to tommy2tone1999
The national organization capitulated to a group which never had any intentions of joining scouts. In doing so they pissed off the local leadership which decided to leave scouting. Parents of boys eligible to join scouts now discourage kids from joining.
A crisis of their own making.
A crisis of their own making.
Posted on 12/13/18 at 12:37 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:
I don't agree with that line of thinking... but I do agree it's not 'wrong" per se.
It isn't wrong, because it isn't about being right or wrong.
It also isn't about agreement from everyone, that's what this gets you, it's about the modern drive drive for people to impose what they want on things they don't like/don't agree with. In short, if you wanted something different than the Boy Scouts, there's no stopping someone from creating a new Boy Scouts. Why must you change something that other people tend to agree with or enjoy?
quote:
When you accept those million dollar contributions, there are stings attached.
Certainly fair, and part of the problem.
Posted on 12/13/18 at 12:39 pm to hob
EXACTLY!!! The goal of these special interests was never about inclusivity, it was about the destruction of an organization whose belief system clashed with their agenda.
Posted on 12/13/18 at 12:40 pm to LSUFanHouston
Abandoned the majority to include a bunch of crazy bitches.
Bye bye boy scouts.
Bye bye boy scouts.
Posted on 12/13/18 at 12:42 pm to JetsetNuggs
Remember when they use to work the LSU games? They use to help people to their seats and what not. I am sure that was considered a perk for some of them boys.. They need to offer more perks.
Posted on 12/13/18 at 12:52 pm to tommy2tone1999
quote:
EXACTLY!!! The goal of these special interests was never about inclusivity, it was about the destruction of an organization whose belief system clashed with their agenda.
Yes. And BSA capitulated, unfortunately.
This is more a topic about how we just can't have nice things anymore. Everything is driven by inclusion and acceptance of everyone in every organization. It's not enough for me to look at an organization, determine its ideals don't fit with mine and I just move on with my life. No. That organization must change to fit my ideals and opinion.
It's lunacy.
Posted on 12/13/18 at 12:53 pm to tommy2tone1999
quote:
They did it to themselves. I raised two Eagles, and when BSA decided to violate their own standards and openly allow gays into its ranks, it was the beginning of the end.
The gays ruined the Boy Scouts? Those damned gays tell you hwhat.
This post was edited on 12/13/18 at 12:55 pm
Posted on 12/13/18 at 1:23 pm to DeathValley85
Posted on 12/13/18 at 1:33 pm to tommy2tone1999
quote:
when BSA decided to violate their own standards and openly allow gays into its ranks
I hate to break it to you, but that has nothing to do with the molestation ordeal... it didn't magically start just a few years ago. If "the gay's" were the only people who molested little boys, the catholic church would have been the safest place on earth, but we all know that's the furthest from the truth.
Posted on 12/13/18 at 1:34 pm to LSUFanHouston
Well what did they think was gonna happen when they started allowing figs?
Posted on 12/13/18 at 1:35 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:
You could also argue that not letting in "gays" had a direct lead into the sexual assault issues. Just like with the Catholic church, hardline approaches tend to backfire.
Uh what?
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