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re: Body cam footage of police interactions with Ahmaud Aubrey
Posted on 5/20/20 at 12:41 pm to Pettifogger
Posted on 5/20/20 at 12:41 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
My best guess/personal belief is that these guys were playing cop, got frustrated at their ineptitude in stopping Arbery, and resorted to a show of force as a result.
I don't really disagree, it's that last part where they jump the line.
There's no reason to do it, and it's directly what leads to the tragic outcome.
Edit: my previous post was more about the idea that by the point they stopped to wait for Arbery, I don't think much of the belief Arbery could be armed was (or should have been) left.
This post was edited on 5/20/20 at 12:44 pm
1
Posted on 5/20/20 at 12:46 pm to Barstools
quote:
Thug POS gonna thug POS. Where is the person that claimed Ms. Arbery is wealthy? Why can she not afford to buy her son a shirt?
And this is why a civil, bigger-picture conversation is almost impossible here. Because people who think like this exist, and inevitably show up to proudly display their ignorance. And it illicits an emotional response from the other side and quickly devolves the discussion into the fingers-in-the-ears cycle it always does.
Btw, Barstool, the comment about Ms. Arbery being a wealthy woman was insinuating that she was going to ultimately win money in a civil suit. I’d say I can’t believe you couldn’t comprehend that, but I would be lying.
Posted on 5/20/20 at 12:52 pm to Rep520
quote:
Edit: my previous post was more about the idea that by the point they stopped to wait for Arbery, I don't think much of the belief Arbery could be armed was (or should have been) left.
I followed you, but my original premise was centered around the thought at the time they grabbed guns and jumped in the truck
Posted on 5/20/20 at 12:54 pm to Hot Carl
quote:
It is a complete straw man.
Exactly. Pitiful.
Posted on 5/20/20 at 12:58 pm to Jimbeaux
quote:
can you not see that there is a possibility the two white guys brought weapons for defensive purposes,
I refuse to acknowledge the self defense purpose because it provides space to defend their actions. If they were worried about their safety, they should have sat their arse at home and let law enforcement handle it.
Posted on 5/20/20 at 12:59 pm to Kujo
All those videos tell me is that he was a POS. Still being a POS does not constitute getting targeted by two retards with guns and getting shot to death. Albeit he was asking for it by deciding to wrestle for the gun.
Posted on 5/20/20 at 1:01 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
I followed you, but my original premise was centered around the thought at the time they grabbed guns and jumped in the truck
I got that, that's why I said the premise only holds to the decision to take guns with them. I do think the elder McMichael's explanation makes even that sound a bit sketchy.
I've never thought they brought guns with the intent to kill Arbery. Similarly, I've never thought that they were motivated by race. I do think they probably wouldn't have gone to the show of force they did if Arbery was white.
But all the paragraph is speculation about their mental state from facts. I don't know what their true motivations were.
Posted on 5/20/20 at 1:02 pm to The Spleen
quote:
I refuse to acknowledge the self defense purpose because it provides space to defend their actions. If they were worried about their safety, they should have sat their arse at home and let law enforcement handle it.
I mean, it's kind of ridiculous to make claims about how weapons point to their lynching motivations but then ignore reasonable explanations for why they brought weapons because "it provides space to defend their actions."
I just don't understand these absolutist views. They're obviously the product of seeing this saga as a tool or argument for some larger political/social argument.
Posted on 5/20/20 at 1:15 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
ignore reasonable explanations for why they brought weapons because "it provides space to defend their actions."
I didn't say I'm ignoring it, I just refuse to acknowledge it as being a reasonable explanation. And I do that because the self-defense justification for the killing has been used in this very thread. So no, I don't think it's reasonable at all to take the law into your own hands, and bring a gun into carrying that out, then try to claim the gun was brought for self defense. Because claiming self defense is an admission to fearing your life could be in danger, and the reasonable response to that is to let law enforcement handle the situation.
Posted on 5/20/20 at 1:23 pm to Hot Carl
The guy was a piece of shite wanna be gangster. The world is a better place without him on it.
That doesn't mean that he deserved to be shot, just that the outcome is an overall positive.
There is no denying that this guy is a POS. Sorry, not sorry.
That doesn't mean that he deserved to be shot, just that the outcome is an overall positive.
There is no denying that this guy is a POS. Sorry, not sorry.
Posted on 5/20/20 at 1:29 pm to Barstools
quote:
The guy was a piece of shite wanna be gangster. The world is a better place without him on it.
That doesn't mean that he deserved to be shot, just that the outcome is an overall positive.
There is no denying that this guy is a POS. Sorry, not sorry.
This post is almost exactly indicative of why I think the McMichaels might not have set out to kill Arbery, but that they wouldn't have used the same level of force on a white guy.
The "he's probably a thug POS who isn't a loss to society" mentality makes it so much easier for the McMichaels to jump straight to threatening force instead of just waiting 45 seconds for real cops.
Posted on 5/20/20 at 1:36 pm to Kujo
In regards to the video that Ahmaud’s lawyers released:
I’m so confused, why would their lawyers put this video out there? Did they actually think this video showed their client as a calm/understanding/cooperative person? What a strange/disrespectful reaction.
I’m so confused, why would their lawyers put this video out there? Did they actually think this video showed their client as a calm/understanding/cooperative person? What a strange/disrespectful reaction.
This post was edited on 5/20/20 at 1:41 pm
Posted on 5/20/20 at 1:39 pm to TitleistProV1X
And then his attorney says this...
LINK
quote:
Attorneys for one of the shooting suspects in the Ahmaud Arbery case said they believe they have uncovered enough information to convince a judge to free their client before the start of his murder trial.
"We do. We do," Franklin Hogue, one of the lawyers for Gregory McMichael said Friday when asked if he thought they had enough evidence to get him out of jail.
"We have to convince a judge to set him a bond," Hogue said, during a press conference in Macon, Ga. "A tall order for a judge to set a bond in any murder case, but let alone one that's gotten a lot of attention like this one."
He provided no details on what that information could be.
LINK
Posted on 5/20/20 at 1:42 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
SO if you have an issue with how the media tends to portray these things you're automatically on the shooter's side? Hopefully I'm just reading too much into your post.
No. But if you constantly try to justify the shooter’s actions, and then play it off like you just have “an issue with the media’s portrayal”, it looks like you are, in fact, on the shooter’s side.
Not saying that’s you, but there are certainly folks on this board who have played it this way.
Posted on 5/20/20 at 1:44 pm to The Spleen
quote:
I didn't say I'm ignoring it, I just refuse to acknowledge it as being a reasonable explanation. And I do that because the self-defense justification for the killing has been used in this very thread. So no, I don't think it's reasonable at all to take the law into your own hands, and bring a gun into carrying that out, then try to claim the gun was brought for self defense. Because claiming self defense is an admission to fearing your life could be in danger, and the reasonable response to that is to let law enforcement handle the situation.
FFS I don't mean reasonable as in "a reasonable person should do it"
I mean reasonable as in "a plausible explanation for someone's thoughts/actions that rings true and not that farfetched from how a stupid and similarly situated person may behave"
Posted on 5/20/20 at 1:47 pm to Rep520
quote:
makes it so much easier for the McMichaels to jump straight to threatening force instead of just waiting 45 seconds for real cops.
And I'm sure the community is glad that they did. They shouldn't have done it, but again, the world is better off.
Posted on 5/20/20 at 1:48 pm to Rep520
quote:
This post is almost exactly indicative of why I think the McMichaels might not have set out to kill Arbery, but that they wouldn't have used the same level of force on a white guy.
The "he's probably a thug POS who isn't a loss to society" mentality makes it so much easier for the McMichaels to jump straight to threatening force instead of just waiting 45 seconds for real cops.
It's also weird to me that people are like "POS good riddance" but nobody raises the point that the McMichaels are probably pretty useless to society.
I don't know if Arbery was a drag on society or not. But I'm going to guess Brunswick is filled with worthless redneck trash and I highly doubt these posters would go "oh who cares he's a criminal" if a white dude who shoplifted one time was killed unlawfully.
Posted on 5/20/20 at 1:52 pm to TitleistProV1X
quote:
In regards to the video that Ahmaud’s lawyers released:
I’m so confused, why would their lawyers put this video out there? Did they actually think this video showed their client as a calm/understanding/cooperative person? What a strange/disrespectful reaction.
Which video is that?
Posted on 5/20/20 at 1:53 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
It's also weird to me that people are like "POS good riddance" but nobody raises the point that the McMichaels are probably pretty useless to society.
One guy shoplifted. The other guy shot and killed a man.
And some people want to label the shoplifter a thug POS. I fully agree with you on the fact it's weird (or maybe it's not) that people want to apply a thug label to Arbery when juxtaposed against what you see the McMichaels doing.
Like playacting John Rambo as part of neighborhood watch makes them societal contributors.
Posted on 5/20/20 at 1:55 pm to The Spleen
quote:
I didn't say I'm ignoring it, I just refuse to acknowledge it as being a reasonable explanation. And I do that because the self-defense justification for the killing has been used in this very thread. So no, I don't think it's reasonable at all to take the law into your own hands, and bring a gun into carrying that out, then try to claim the gun was brought for self defense.
I think you can make a distinction between their intention and their justification/culpability or lack there of.
Their overall decision to confront Aubrey with weapons was not justified, in my opinion, even if they had witnessed him stealing or trespassing (I don’t think they did). In doing so, it was foreseeable by a reasonable man that they placed Aubrey and the community in more danger than was reasonable to stop him in the commission of a crime (which they didn’t actually see).
However, it’s not fair and and actually quite inflammatory to say that they intended to use their firearms to lynch Aubrey. There’s no reason to jump to that conclusion, and every reason to think that they brought guns for defensive purposes. Their decision to bring guns was a bad decision, which created a situation where the use of the gun was criminal.
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